66 MF40 Revival

[da17]

Hello everyone,


My question is: will my tractor run with the battery ONLY hooked up to the starter?

Do I need to fix the electrical system before it will run?
Will I destroy the alternator trying to run it without a battery hooked up to it?

I don't have any wires to the alternator, and the gages have a few wires that are dangling here and there.


You can continue reading for more information if necessary.
About the tractor:
I have a 1966 MF40 diesel, 3 cylinder Perkins. It hasn't run in a long time. It stopped running because it had something poured in the fuel tank that turned the diesel to tar... (Enough said)

About me:
I've never worked on tractors before and only started working on diesels a little bit ago, but I have sufficient mechanical experience.

Work performed:
I cleaned out all the fuel lines, injectors seemed okay. I replaced the injector pump and now I am working to make it run.

The electrical system is non-existent on this machine, except for the ground wire and positive battery wire to the starter.

It is starting for a few seconds with ether but then dies..

Thoughts and suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

Thank you!

 

[stevieb49829]

To make sure your alternator is not part of your worries:

If it has an internally regulated 12 V alternator, with 3 places for wires, or a Delco 1 wire, I'd rewire the alternator according to the multitude of schematics on this site (Search 12 V alternator conversion). Then you won't have to worry about that part of the electrical system as you work through the rest of the issues. If you are not battling with an external regulator, it's really a simple wiring system. This assumes the tractor is negative ground.



Almost all 12V alternators will have 3 terminals. This is a Delco 10SI style. The large stud with the red washer in this picture takes at least a 10 gauge wire, which goes to one side of the Amp meter gauge on the dash. Or to the Positive battery terminal as a temporary connection while you work out the rest of the dash wiring. The other two tabs (directly above the large stud) can be wired several ways. So look over a schematic and figure which way you want to go. Most other brands have similar wiring tabs and lugs. Here's a generic schematic for wiring a 3 wire alternator:

Of course, with a diesel, you won't have a coil and distributor circuit. And I'm of absolutely no use on your diesel engine issues. But if you describe them well others will be along to help. Pictures help a lot.
Steve

 

[Jim.ME]

Hello everyone,


My question is: will my tractor run with the battery ONLY hooked up to the starter?

Do I need to fix the electrical system before it will run?
Will I destroy the alternator trying to run it without a battery hooked up to it?

I don't have any wires to the alternator, and the gages have a few wires that are dangling here and there.


You can continue reading for more information if necessary.
About the tractor:
I have a 1966 MF40 diesel, 3 cylinder Perkins. It hasn't run in a long time. It stopped running because it had something poured in the fuel tank that turned the diesel to tar... (Enough said)

About me:
I've never worked on tractors before and only started working on diesels a little bit ago, but I have sufficient mechanical experience.

Work performed:
I cleaned out all the fuel lines, injectors seemed okay. I replaced the injector pump and now I am working to make it run.

The electrical system is non-existent on this machine, except for the ground wire and positive battery wire to the starter.

It is starting for a few seconds with ether but then dies..

Thoughts and suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

Thank you!

Your MF 40 may have an externally regulated 10DN series, as shown in the parts book. Those have 3 wires with two going to an external regulator. Two of the wires are in a plug that goes straight into the back, rather than the side as in the 3 wire internally regulated alternator stevieb posted about. It is best that an alternator not be run without a battery hooked up. If you need to run it, I suggest unhooking, and you posted they are unhooked, all the wires from the alternator and securing the ends where they will not short out.

 

[stevieb49829]

Your MF 40 may have an externally regulated 10DN series, as shown in the parts book. Those have 3 wires with two going to an external regulator. Two of the wires are in a plug that goes straight into the back, rather than the side as in the 3 wire internally regulated alternator stevieb posted about. It is best that an alternator not be run without a battery hooked up. If you need to run it, I suggest unhooking, and you posted they are unhooked, all the wires from the alternator and securing the ends where they will not short out.

Jim, thank you for putting in more of the details. I don't have the access to the manuals and info you apparently do, and tag-teaming on these subjects gets the poster more detailed info than I can usually provide by myself. I like it!! steve

 

[stevieb49829]

To make sure your alternator is not part of your worries:

If it has an internally regulated 12 V alternator, with 3 places for wires, or a Delco 1 wire, I'd rewire the alternator according to the multitude of schematics on this site (Search 12 V alternator conversion). Then you won't have to worry about that part of the electrical system as you work through the rest of the issues. If you are not battling with an external regulator, it's really a simple wiring system. This assumes the tractor is negative ground.


View attachment 63838
Almost all 12V alternators will have 3 terminals. This is a Delco 10SI style. The large stud with the red washer in this picture takes at least a 10 gauge wire, which goes to one side of the Amp meter gauge on the dash. Or to the Positive battery terminal as a temporary connection while you work out the rest of the dash wiring. The other two tabs (directly above the large stud) can be wired several ways. So look over a schematic and figure which way you want to go. Most other brands have similar wiring tabs and lugs. Here's a generic schematic for wiring a 3 wire alternator:

View attachment 63841

Of course, with a diesel, you won't have a coil and distributor circuit. And I'm of absolutely no use on your diesel engine issues. But if you describe them well others will be along to help. Pictures help a lot.
Steve

Here's a schematic for the externally-regulated 10 DN that Jim mentions:

 

[used red MN]

Hello da, welcome to YT! Beyond the electrical issue are you aware of the process required to bleed air out of the fuel system? There should be a bleeder on the filter, the pump and finally the injector lines themselves need bled while cranking the engine. If you are unfamiliar with this process please post back and we can give you more details. Do you have a repair manual for this tractor? If not you need to get one.

 

[Old Ford Mechanic]

The answer to your question is YES. The engine in your tractor will start and run with only the starter wired. I would go through the fuel system and get all the air bled out to get the engine running. If it runs well then tackle the rest of the electrical system. And be careful with the starting fluid as too much can damage the engine. Bleed the air out at the fuel filter then, open the bleed screw on the side of the pump and spin the engine over. You should have a good stream as the engine spins. Close the bleed screw and at the injectors loosen the fuel line at all 3. Just loosen the lines . There is no need to remove the line from the injector. With all three loose spin the engine over while observing the open fuel lines. If all is well you should see fuel at all 3 connections. Now retighten all 3 fuel lines at the injectors. If you have a good strong battery that spins the engine fast your tractor should now start and run.

 

[da17]

Thank you everyone for the advice!

Hello da, welcome to YT! Beyond the electrical issue are you aware of the process required to bleed air out of the fuel system? There should be a bleeder on the filter, the pump and finally the injector lines themselves need bled while cranking the engine. If you are unfamiliar with this process please post back and we can give you more details. Do you have a repair manual for this tractor? If not you need to get one.

Yes thank you, I believe I did bleed the fuel system. I say believe because I did it per a few videos I saw on YouTube and they weren't complete.
please share more details

Yes I downloaded service manual from Jensales, but so far the layout is very complicated to me and I'm having difficulty finding things in it, I'm not very happy with it yet; also the pictures are almost impossible to see, being black and white and white whitewashed at that. But I'll keep working to understand it and I believe it will come in handy.

 

[da17]

Your MF 40 may have an externally regulated 10DN series, as shown in the parts book. Those have 3 wires with two going to an external regulator. Two of the wires are in a plug that goes straight into the back, rather than the side as in the 3 wire internally regulated alternator stevieb posted about. It is best that an alternator not be run without a battery hooked up. If you need to run it, I suggest unhooking, and you posted they are unhooked, all the wires from the alternator and securing the ends where they will not short out.

I haven't looked much yet at the alternator but it's part numberb is 1100805 and it is original. I'll be looking to see what kind of alternator this is more when I get time to.

But regarding the voltage regulator, does anyone know where that is mounted on tractor?
I haven't seen it anywhere and this makes me think that it was removed from the tractor before the purchase.

You can see in the pictures that I attached of the alternator, that one of the two prongs, for the wires that go to the voltage regulator, are broken, any suggestions on how to fix this without buying a new alternator?

 

[da17]

Here's a schematic for the externally-regulated 10 DN that Jim mentions:
View attachment 63845

Excellent schematic, thank you for this!

Where did you get this schematic from?

 

[Jim.ME]

I haven't looked much yet at the alternator but it's part numberb is 1100805 and it is original. I'll be looking to see what kind of alternator this is more when I get time to.

But regarding the voltage regulator, does anyone know where that is mounted on tractor?
I haven't seen it anywhere and this makes me think that it was removed from the tractor before the purchase.

You can see in the pictures that I attached of the alternator, that one of the two prongs, for the wires that go to the voltage regulator, are broken, any suggestions on how to fix this without buying a new alternator?

I am going to guess you can replace the alternator for about the cost of a repair, especially since it may not work anyway. If you replace it you may want to go with a newer internally regulated one (either the one or three wire 10SI/12SI Delco types will be a direct mount. there will be a bit of wiring to change.

Look on the left side of the tractor, a bit above and ahead of the steering box arm for the voltage regulator. It should be in that general area, on one side or the other.

 

[da17]

I am going to guess you can replace the alternator for about the cost of a repair, especially since it may not work anyway. If you replace it you may want to go with a newer internally regulated one (either the one or three wire 10SI/12SI Delco types will be a direct mount. there will be a bit of wiring to change.

Look on the left side of the tractor, a bit above and ahead of the steering box arm for the voltage regulator. It should be in that general area, on one side or the other.

Is the internally regulated better?

Thank you, I will look there for the regulator when I get back to the tractor on Thursday, God willing.

 

[stevieb49829]

I haven't looked much yet at the alternator but it's part numberb is 1100805 and it is original. I'll be looking to see what kind of alternator this is more when I get time to.

But regarding the voltage regulator, does anyone know where that is mounted on tractor?
I haven't seen it anywhere and this makes me think that it was removed from the tractor before the purchase.

You can see in the pictures that I attached of the alternator, that one of the two prongs, for the wires that go to the voltage regulator, are broken, any suggestions on how to fix this without buying a new alternator?

Is the internally regulated better?

Thank you, I will look there for the regulator when I get back to the tractor on Thursday, God willing.

That looks like a typical, mid-60's 10da, externally regulated. The regulator will look something like this:


It's pretty hard nowadays to find quality regulators, so I'd suggest you go with the 10/12SI, internally regulated Delco alternator. They come in a 3 wire configuration, and a one wire. While the one-wire is simple, I and others on here prefer the 3 wire for a couple of reasons, one being they kick into charging immediately. If you go that route, you will need the diode shown in the wiring diagram I posted above, or follow the instructions to us an idiot light. I have a couple of extra diodes. steve

 

[da17]

I haven't looked much yet at the alternator but it's part numberb is 1100805 and it is original. I'll be looking to see what kind of alternator this is more when I get time to.

But regarding the voltage regulator, does anyone know where that is mounted on tractor?
I haven't seen it anywhere and this makes me think that it was removed from the tractor before the purchase.

You can see in the pictures that I attached of the alternator, that one of the two prongs, for the wires that go to the voltage regulator, are broken, any suggestions on how to fix this without buying a new alternator?

Here's some pictures to see how I tested the injectors. What is circled in red? Is the return line, It goes back to the fuel tank which is disconnected. What is circled in blue Is the fuel supply lines from the injection pump which are connected?

 

[used red MN]

Here's some pictures to see how I tested the injectors. What is circled in red? Is the return line, It goes back to the fuel tank which is disconnected. What is circled in blue Is the fuel supply lines from the injection pump which are connected?

You have cranked the engine and the injectors sprayed fuel from them? If so then that should be good enough to make it run from the fuel stand point. Just FYI, be careful when working with high pressure fluids like in the fuel injection system or hydraulics. In these situations fluid under high pressure can get injected into your skin. Enough fluid and not treated soon enough can lead to amputations being required.

 

[da17]

You have cranked the engine and the injectors sprayed fuel from them? If so then that should be good enough to make it run from the fuel stand point. Just FYI, be careful when working with high pressure fluids like in the fuel injection system or hydraulics. In these situations fluid under high pressure can get injected into your skin. Enough fluid and not treated soon enough can lead to amputations being required.

I cranked the engine and zero fuel came out.

I appreciate the warning!

Dustin A.

 

[Old Ford Mechanic]

I cranked the engine and zero fuel came out.

I appreciate the warning!

Dustin A.

#1 Make sure you have good clean fuel in the tank. #2 Make sure the shut off at the bottom of the tank is open with fuel flowing to the fuel filter on the tractor. #3 Make sure the fuel filter has fuel flowing through it to the lift pump and on to the injector pump. #4 If you have fuel at these places then, bleed the system as instructed. If still no fuel getting to your injectors then, your pump will need to be pulled and sent to a shop to be cleaned and rebuilt. A common problem on a tractor that has been sitting and not run for an extended period.

 

[used red MN]

I cranked the engine and zero fuel came out.

I appreciate the warning!

Dustin A.

So you didn’t “test the injectors” you “attempted to test the injectors” I suppose we could just rely on the fact that you did not give any report on the outcome of your test. To me when you say “this is how I tested the injectors” and move on this gives me the impression they squirted fuel in a reasonable pattern or in other words they would probably run the engine. If you don’t mind me asking how old are you? I just like to help out younger folks with there written communication skills, hopefully pointing out a few things that they can remember later and utilize it. I like to remind new posters here that we are only able to see what you write and what the photos show. You are the only one there looking at it and seeing and experiencing the issues facing you. You did a fair job of explaining you situation and problems that is good. The world of texting making everything as short as possible and abbreviated wording is causing a lot of limitations on written communication. Soap box now put away.
I agree about the internal regulator alternator being better, but first you need to get it to run.

 

[da17]

So you didn’t “test the injectors” you “attempted to test the injectors” I suppose we could just rely on the fact that you did not give any report on the outcome of your test. To me when you say “this is how I tested the injectors” and move on this gives me the impression they squirted fuel in a reasonable pattern or in other words they would probably run the engine. If you don’t mind me asking how old are you? I just like to help out younger folks with there written communication skills, hopefully pointing out a few things that they can remember later and utilize it. I like to remind new posters here that we are only able to see what you write and what the photos show. You are the only one there looking at it and seeing and experiencing the issues facing you. You did a fair job of explaining you situation and problems that is good. The world of texting making everything as short as possible and abbreviated wording is causing a lot of limitations on written communication. Soap box now put away.
I agree about the internal regulator alternator being better, but first you need to get it to run.

Yeah, I definitely did not post something that I had written in a notes app, while thinking I did... I'm sorry for that guys, I think this will make more sense now.
so this is the info thats missing:

"Thank you, everyone for your advice and input!

Regarding The engine not running: I think I found the problem for it: injectors are clogged.

But please tell me if I "bench" tested them correctly:
1. I removed them from inside the engine
2. With the nozzles outside the engine I loosely reconnected each injector to it's fuel supply line from the injector pump
3. I left the top fuel line to the tank disconnected (I think it's the return line)
4. Turned the engine over and confirmed fuel exiting at the line to injector connection
5. Tightened nut add fuel injector and turned engine over for 5-8 sec to see spray pattern
6. 2 of 3 were completely dry, 1 the had a drip of fuel on the nozzle tip.
7. Conclusion: all 3 are clogged.

Do you agree this confirms they are clogged?"

 

[used red MN]

Yeah, I definitely did not post something that I had written in a notes app, while thinking I did... I'm sorry for that guys, I think this will make more sense now.
so this is the info thats missing:

"Thank you, everyone for your advice and input!

Regarding The engine not running: I think I found the problem for it: injectors are clogged.

But please tell me if I "bench" tested them correctly:
1. I removed them from inside the engine
2. With the nozzles outside the engine I loosely reconnected each injector to it's fuel supply line from the injector pump
3. I left the top fuel line to the tank disconnected (I think it's the return line)
4. Turned the engine over and confirmed fuel exiting at the line to injector connection
5. Tightened nut add fuel injector and turned engine over for 5-8 sec to see spray pattern
6. 2 of 3 were completely dry, 1 the had a drip of fuel on the nozzle tip.
7. Conclusion: all 3 are clogged.

Do you agree this confirms they are clogged?"

The fuel exiting the injection lines from the pump must be free of air to test the injectors as you are. The system relies on the fact that there is solid fuel in the line so that the pressure can be raised high enough to activate the injectors “poppet valve” to release fuel to the spray tip. Air compresses, liquid will not. Your test also relies on the injection pump to be working correctly. More lacking info “I replaced the injection pump” the pump shown in your photo does not look like it was rebuilt or new. Where did it come from, fell out of the sky?