424d Generator and VR test and question

[Steiner]

I believe the regulator will not ground the field enough to pull in the cutout. Gotta be the regulator. Jim

Hoping so. Generator is rebuilt original to tractor 1100422 so I guess I'll look for a 20A A type regulator at NAPA. Don't like seeing threads like another on here where someone said they once bought five regulators before they got a good one. Might just have to flush the money like happens and go alternator like we should've to start.

For now I didn't disconnect anything but told him to turn the key off after starting since the armature is feeding the AMP bulb and the other side goes back to the key. Don't want to risk it trying to charge the battery unregulated through the key contacts and wiring.

 

[Janicholson]

If the genny s FLD post is dead grounded and the VR’s cutout relay is by passed jumped around and she still don’t charge the genny must not be working. If it charges if you dead ground the genny FLD post but not otherwise the vr is bad or not well grounded. Usually if it passes BOTH my motor tests the genny itself is okay so non charging may be a vr or vr not grounded issue.
John T

We have gotten to the point that when all is connected correctly, and battery actually charged to 12.65resting volts that the flash grounding of the F terminal will make it charge The regulator field points are not a solid ground when shut off, and don't let it start charging. Jim

 

[Steiner]

If the genny s FLD post is dead grounded and the VR’s cutout relay is by passed jumped around and she still don’t charge the genny must not be working. If it charges if you dead ground the genny FLD post but not otherwise the vr is bad or not well grounded. Usually if it passes BOTH my motor tests the genny itself is okay so non charging may be a vr or vr not grounded issue.
John T

Yes it looks like it charges if you just touch a wire from the VR case to the field terminal and then remove it. Continues to charge until throttling down enough that the generator voltage drops below battery voltage, then won't start charging again after revving up but the armature comes back to 13+ volts. Touch ground to field and it starts charging.

Touching battery to armature spins the water pump and fan fine.

 

[wore out]

Yes it looks like it charges if you just touch a wire from the VR case to the field terminal and then remove it. Continues to charge until throttling down enough that the generator voltage drops below battery voltage, then won't start charging again after revving up but the armature comes back to 13+ volts. Touch ground to field and it starts charging.

Touching battery to armature spins the water pump and fan fine.

"Touching battery to armature spins the water pump and fan fine."


Surely you don't thank that's NORMAL?

You belt is slipping and that MAY be contributing to your charging issues!

 

[Steiner]

"Touching battery to armature spins the water pump and fan fine."


Surely you don't thank that's NORMAL?

You belt is slipping and that MAY be contributing to your charging issues!

The water pump belt must be slipping when shut off not the generator belt. Doesn't seem to affect it when running though and touching the field as it'll charge then.

Good point though. Maybe the startup load is too much. I'll check that.

 

[wore out]

The water pump belt must be slipping when shut off not the generator belt. Doesn't seem to affect it when running though and touching the field as it'll charge then.

Good point though. Maybe the startup load is too much. I'll check that.

Yes, as I recall the generator is driven from the waterpump pulley, I should have thought of/mentioned that!

If the waterpump belt is slipping, for sure the generator isn't going to get up to speed!

 

[Janicholson]

Yes, as I recall the generator is driven from the waterpump pulley, I should have thought of/mentioned that!

If the waterpump belt is slipping, for sure the generator isn't going to get up to speed!

The generator is not very (mechanically) loaded when getting excited from startup. Do tighten the belt! Jim

 

[Steiner]

Honestly I can't see how to tension the wp/fp belt. The water pump and crank are obviously fixed and the diesel pump is hard lined and I don't see an adjustment but it's caked with crud.

Starting it up and revving don't really show any slippage to the eye, and the fact you can ground the field and it starts charging....

 

[Steiner]

Nevermind...got the original manual...

 

[Steiner]

Ok, got the wp belt tensioned so I can actually turn the motor over by hand with the fan. Generator was and is tight. Same status.

 

[Steiner]

I really appreciate everyone's generous help especially on a Sunday. I'm gonna go spend some time with my parents and revisit this thing in the fall.

 

[Janicholson]

Ok, got the wp belt tensioned so I can actually turn the motor over by hand with the fan. Generator was and is tight. Same status.

Good followup on the diagnosis. A push buttom momentary contact would make it work untill you got back to it! Jim

 

[Steiner]

Good followup on the diagnosis. A push buttom momentary contact would make it work untill you got back to it! Jim

I did actually think about that. Since it can drop out when throttling down he might not think to keep hitting it though....he was never too good about looking at the two dash lights which is why the key would get left on a couple times a year. If the key is off the bright green led I put on the dash will pulse with the generator though. He's had plenty of years hooking to the charger!

 

[John T]

Steiner, let’s get back to the basics.

Connecting the gennys FLD to the VR case, assuming the case is grounded, causes her to charge but no charge otherwise Tells me the genny is okay but the VR is bad !!!! If working it’s FLD terminal provides the path to ground via an internal field current control relay from gennys FLD post Genny is okay so there’s a vr problem or the wires open from vr to genny !!!

Touching hot battery voltage to the gennys arm post should make the genny spin/motor that’s how it should work. However to do that the belt must be removed unless it’s way too loose. A simple tightening the belt may solve many of the problems ??

Again the vr needs a good ground and if it charges with the gennys FLD grounded but not otherwise the vr is bad or the wires open from vr FLD to gennys FLD. Suspect the vr or vr wiring.

PS even momentary connecting vr case to gennys FLD making her work even after jump is removed still points to a vr problem as it shouldn’t need that to work properly. Its internal field current control relay and its contacts must have a problem. Looks like the sparkies agree so hopefully we’re right ???

This is all covered in my procedure hope this helps thanks for the updates hang in there

John T

 

[Janicholson]

Steiner, let’s get back to the basics.

Connecting the gennys FLD to the VR case, assuming the case is grounded, causes her to charge but no charge otherwise Tells me the genny is okay but the VR is bad !!!! If working it’s FLD terminal provides the path to ground via an internal field current control relay from gennys FLD post Genny is okay so there’s a vr problem or the wires open from vr to genny !!!

Touching hot battery voltage to the gennys arm post should make the genny spin/motor that’s how it should work. However to do that the belt must be removed unless it’s way too loose

Again the vr needs a good ground and if it charges with the gennys FLD grounded but not otherwise the vr is bad or the wires open from vr FLD to gennys FLD. Suspect the vr or vr wiring.

PS even momentary connecting vr case to gennys FLD making her work even after jump is removed still points to a vr problem as it shouldn’t need that to work properly. Its internal field current control relay and its contacts must have a problem. Looks like the sparkies agree so hopefully we’re right ???

This is all covered in my procedure hope this helps thanks for the updates hang in there

John T

I think he is happy with the diagnosis that the VR is bad. It will probably be a while before he gets back to make the change. The Dad(owner) is ok charging the battery as needed. Jim