9n starting issues

[mark20]

I've been working on my neighbors 9n . It quit working 3 years ago, with he thought was a spark issue. He replaced the coil, cap , rotor and carb kit. I double checked the carb kit, firing order and it has good spark but will not kick, even with starting fluid or gas poured into the plug holes. While cranking it over, the starter seems to jump or buck in place and there is a loud knock in yhe bell housing. Could be a separate issue, not sure. It has spark and fuel, it should at least try. Thoughts?

 

[Bruce (VA)]

6v or 12v?

With all those new parts, did he set the points and timing?

Stop pouring gas in the cylinders. All that accomplishes is washing the oil off of the cylinder walls thereby reducing compression. And while the gas will probably evaporate
before you can get the plugs reinstalled, if it doesnt, raw gasoline will foul the plugs.

Does the tractor have a spark that will jump 1/4 in open air?*

Will the gas drain out of the carb bowl in a steady stream and fill a pint jar in less than 2 minutes?

What is the EXACT voltage at the battery? ( yes, you need a multimeter for that, not a worthless light)

How do I know this part is defective?

These are the questions you need answered before you attempt any repairs or buy a new part.

*If you dont own a spark checker w/ an adjustable gap ( NOT a light) buy one. In the meantime, an old spark plug w/ the gap opened to at least will work. Ground it to a
rust & paint free spot on the engine turn the key on & look for a spark.
75 Tips

 

[Den N Ms]

mark20 ,Double check the firing order,check for good 1/4" spark,all good there.Then remove the plugs and get a new set of NGK 3112 or NGK 3212 plugs.Put a teaspoon of motor oil or three squirts with a oil can in each plug hole.Install new plugs checking gap at .025 .Squirt a shot of starting fluid into carburetor intake while cranking it over.It sounds like some teeth are missing on the starter ring gear,maybe try pull starting it in like 2nd gear ignition switch on and starting fluid in the carburetor intake and see if you can get it running.Good Luck!

 

[mark20]

Sounds good,thanks guys.
I'm used to Farmall's and not Ford's. I will double check the firing order. I grabbed an Autolite 3116 that I use in the pullers, spark jumped that no problem, it's set for. 035, but your saying it needs to jump1/4 inch, I checked the plugs he had in it, seemed good. I will check it out. I did charge up a new 6v battery for the guy, it turns over good. I gotta spend a little more time tonight. I'll keep you guys posted. Thanks for the info

 

[Mad Farmer]

(quoted from post at 04:20:58 10/31/23) Sounds good,thanks guys.
I'm used to Farmall's and not Ford's. I will double check the firing order. I grabbed an Autolite 3116 that I use in the pullers, spark jumped that no problem, it's set for. 035, but your saying it needs to jump1/4 inch, I checked the plugs he had in it, seemed good. I will check it out. I did charge up a new 6v battery for the guy, it turns over good. I gotta spend a little more time tonight. I'll keep you guys posted. Thanks for the info

Do you have the intake hooked up to the carb?

One time my N would not start/pop, it had spark and gas flow from the drain plug. I disconnected the intake to use some ether and gas poured out.

The brass frit drain on bottom of carb was clogged. [i:3bff61c083]Not sure how it got that flooded?[/i:3bff61c083] Carb did not leak on standing with fuel on, and I shut fuel off when done using the N.

I cleaned the frit with some carb cleaner and with intake disconnected it fired right up. I've been more careful turning off fuel when I shut the N off. When time permits I'm going to clean the needle and seat.

 

[M-MAN]

That 1/4 inch seems to be a common
reference when it comes to fuel
flow or spark jump. No earthly idea
why. I have never seen a spark plug
with a 1/4 in gap. Never seen a
tractor that could burn a
continuous 1/4 in stream of fuel
either. Your spark is fine as
described. Any spark will ignite
compressed fuel and air. It doesn't
have to be a lightning bolt.

 

[Eman85]

Does it have compression??

 

[HFJ]

i've never seen anyone talk about a quarter inch stream of gas. they talk about how long it takes to fill a pint jar.

as for the spark, it's harder to jump an air gap under engine compression than it is in the open air. 'any' spark won't necessarily be strong enough to jump the plug's gap **under compression**, hence the use of the wider quarter inch gap in open air to make up for the lack of said compression.

 

[jimtrs]

(quoted from post at 10:57:38 10/31/23) That 1/4 inch seems to be a common
reference when it comes to fuel
flow or spark jump. No earthly idea
why. I have never seen a spark plug
with a 1/4 in gap. Never seen a
tractor that could burn a
continuous 1/4 in stream of fuel
either. Your spark is fine as
described. Any spark will ignite
compressed fuel and air. It doesn't
have to be a lightning bolt.

Ummm .....

A good quality spark [b:3abb7a9f04][i:3abb7a9f04][u:3abb7a9f04]is indeed needed[/u:3abb7a9f04] [/i:3abb7a9f04][/b:3abb7a9f04] for an engine to run
The 1/4 inch gap reference is an approximate, [b:3abb7a9f04][i:3abb7a9f04][u:3abb7a9f04]easy way[/u:3abb7a9f04] [/i:3abb7a9f04][/b:3abb7a9f04] to check the quality of a spark outside of compression in a cylinder.
A spark under compression, is different than a spark outside of compression.
If a spark can jump a 1/4 inch outside of compression, then you probably have a good quality spark under compression.
If you have a weak spark outside of compression, you probably don't have enough, or any spark under compression.

So to summarize:
A low voltage spark that jumps the spark plug gap without compression may not be intense enough to jump the gap and ignite the fuel under compression.

This has been known for almost as long as there has been spark ignition engines

See:
(Paschen's law)

 

[lha]

If You are referring to point setting on a 9n,the points should be set at 0.015. The timing is a static setting as described in the
I&T manual. The point setting affects the timing, so set them first,then time the dist.

 

[mark20]

I removed the tin work/gas tank for ease to work on it. I do not have the air breather hooked up. I didn't really think it was going to be a big job. I removed all unnecessary wiring, it was a mess. I will set the points tonight and I have a set of NGK 3112. It won't hurt to put them in.

 

[mark20]

Well , here's a update. New NGK 3212 plugs and gapped to.025. While changing the plugs , did a compression test. #1-50, #2-47, #3 and #4 both around 25 psi. That's not good. Did drop in a tea spoon of oil in each cylinder. Left it while I double checked the firing order and points and i have 6.4 volts to the coil. Points seem to be non adjustable, seems weird. Tried firing it and nothing, not a cough, weeze, nothing. Checked compression again,#1-70, 2-68 and #3 and #4 around 40ish. I do hear a leak at the carb when it's rolling over while I have my hand over the carb inlet. New carb kit coming tomorrow. I did try quick start again, but just a bit. Compression just to low to pull fuel up?, plugs aren't wet at all.

 

[used red MN]

I am also a Farmall guy but have learned a few things
about these Fords. One that is a possible hurdle to
what youre facing is this. The tang drive for the front
mount distributor is offset and is intended to only be
able to let you install the distributor one way. If by
chance due to wear or force, whatever he installed it
incorrectly it usually breaks the distributor shaft
support but I believe can keep turning but be out of
time. This is something you may have to investigate.
Not a 100 percent sure on this but with the tin work off
I think you can look in the spark plug hole and see the
valves. Then you can tell if you are on the compression
stroke.

 

[old]

Compression that low says you have major problems. Bad rings or if it sat a long time stuck rings or valves that are sticking or burnt etc. Try this. Fill the cylinders with ATF and let it sit a few days. If compression comes up good chance it had sticking rings or valves

 

[mark20]

Hey guys, I did double check to see that the distributor was on correctly, I even tried to see if I could get it on the wrong way. I also popped of the 2 side sheilds to make sure the valves are all moving, I'll try the ATF trick tonight.

 

[Hobo,NC]

(quoted from post at 20:57:38 10/31/23) That 1/4 inch seems to be a common
reference when it comes to fuel
flow or spark jump. No earthly idea
why. I have never seen a spark plug
with a 1/4 in gap. Never seen a
tractor that could burn a
continuous 1/4 in stream of fuel
either. Your spark is fine as
described. Any spark will ignite
compressed fuel and air. It doesn't
have to be a lightning bolt.

You are gonna get beat up with that answer and deserve it. I beat a few of my buds here to death and one finally came up with the right answer.

" These are the questions you need answered before you attempt any repairs or buy a new part.



It's called low hanging fruit, the easiest to pick. Why has life got to be so hard? A spark checker, a go no go gauge what is so hard about that.

Tricks, in just a few minuets of your time you can can determine the health of the circuit to provide current and switch the load. On a front mount you can open the battery door hook right at the ballast are go to the coil your call. Low hanging fruit I know exactly the direction I need to go. All by looking at a 4 amp headlight bulb in a mason jar.

I confirm/repair the circuit to good health out comes the spark checker. I actually put the checker on it first cuzz it was in my pocket when I went to check a no start condition. If i had strong spark no need to walk back to the shop for my light in a bottle. If I has weak/no spark take the walk : (

 

[Eman85]

(quoted from post at 17:35:48 10/31/23) Well , here's a update. New NGK 3212 plugs and gapped to.025. While changing the plugs , did a compression test. #1-50, #2-47, #3 and #4 both around 25 psi. That's not good. Did drop in a tea spoon of oil in each cylinder. Left it while I double checked the firing order and points and i have 6.4 volts to the coil. Points seem to be non adjustable, seems weird. Tried firing it and nothing, not a cough, weeze, nothing. Checked compression again,#1-70, 2-68 and #3 and #4 around 40ish. I do hear a leak at the carb when it's rolling over while I have my hand over the carb inlet. New carb kit coming tomorrow. I did try quick start again, but just a bit. Compression just to low to pull fuel up?, plugs aren't wet at all.

I would pull the side covers and look at the valve actions, might have stuck valves from sitting.

 

[Mad Farmer]

(quoted from post at 05:47:51 11/01/23)

(quoted from post at 20:57:38 10/31/23) That 1/4 inch seems to be a common
reference when it comes to fuel
flow or spark jump. No earthly idea
why. I have never seen a spark plug
with a 1/4 in gap. Never seen a
tractor that could burn a
continuous 1/4 in stream of fuel
either. Your spark is fine as
described. Any spark will ignite
compressed fuel and air. It doesn't
have to be a lightning bolt.

You are gonna get beat up with that answer and deserve it. I beat a few of my buds here to death and one finally came up with the right answer.

" These are the questions you need answered before you attempt any repairs or buy a new part.



It's called low hanging fruit, the easiest to pick. Why has life got to be so hard? A spark checker, a go no go gauge what is so hard about that.

Tricks, in just a few minuets of your time you can can determine the health of the circuit to provide current and switch the load. On a front mount you can open the battery door hook right at the ballast are go to the coil your call. Low hanging fruit I know exactly the direction I need to go. All by looking at a 4 amp headlight bulb in a mason jar.

I confirm/repair the circuit to good health out comes the spark checker. I actually put the checker on it first cuzz it was in my pocket when I went to check a no start condition. If i had strong spark no need to walk back to the shop for my light in a bottle. If I has weak/no spark take the walk : (

You can put an inductive (or regular) timing light on each plug wire to check each cylinders spark.

 

[Hobo,NC]

(quoted from post at 01:12:05 11/02/23)

(quoted from post at 05:47:51 11/01/23)

(quoted from post at 20:57:38 10/31/23) That 1/4 inch seems to be a common
reference when it comes to fuel
flow or spark jump. No earthly idea
why. I have never seen a spark plug
with a 1/4 in gap. Never seen a
tractor that could burn a
continuous 1/4 in stream of fuel
either. Your spark is fine as
described. Any spark will ignite
compressed fuel and air. It doesn't
have to be a lightning bolt.

You are gonna get beat up with that answer and deserve it. I beat a few of my buds here to death and one finally came up with the right answer.

" These are the questions you need answered before you attempt any repairs or buy a new part.



It's called low hanging fruit, the easiest to pick. Why has life got to be so hard? A spark checker, a go no go gauge what is so hard about that.

Tricks, in just a few minuets of your time you can can determine the health of the circuit to provide current and switch the load. On a front mount you can open the battery door hook right at the ballast are go to the coil your call. Low hanging fruit I know exactly the direction I need to go. All by looking at a 4 amp headlight bulb in a mason jar.

I confirm/repair the circuit to good health out comes the spark checker. I actually put the checker on it first cuzz it was in my pocket when I went to check a no start condition. If i had strong spark no need to walk back to the shop for my light in a bottle. If I has weak/no spark take the walk : (




You can put an inductive (or regular) timing light on each plug wire to check each cylinders spark.

That only tells you the event happen it does not tell you the health of the spark.

 

[mark20]

Well fellas, got it running. Used 6v for the points and 12v for the starter. Rebuilt carb, and it will run,but not very smoothly. After running for 30 seconds, I started to see smoke coming up through the rad. I didnt have the cap on, and then I checked the rad level, and there is none. Fired it back up and same thing, I'm guessing the head gasket is pooched and the rad fluid leaked out somewhere. It's not in the base, unless it burnt up and that's why it died on the guy. That would explain the bad compression. I'm looking for another motor for the guy. Thanks for all the information