Ford 800/900 Hydraulic Remote - Auxiliary Port

[KJMClark]

I have a Ford 860 with a Ford 311877 single spool remote on it. Works like this one at Steiner: https://www.external_link/FDS3364-Single-Spool-Double-Acting-Hydraulic-Remote-Valve-Kit, but it's not that one. If it helps, I can show some pictures of mine. Has one handle, for a pair of hydraulic lines. Has a knob you can turn to work with a single action cylinder or double action. It also has an extra port they call an "auxiliary port", that's basically always fed with hydraulic fluid.

I bought an old log splitter to use with it. The log splitter has its own remote of course, and has two hydraulic lines coming off of it.

My first thought for hooking up the splitter was to use the two existing hydraulic lines coming off my remote. But I figured that would require that I pull the control arm on the tractor one way (it's a spring-loaded arm, so it wants to return to center if you're not pulling it one way or the other) the whole time I'm using the splitter.

When I read more about the auxiliary port, I figured that was the way to go. So, I bought parts to run a hose off that, and planned to hook up one side of the splitter to that, with the other line from the splitter going to one of the remote's controlled lines.

First, I connected the auxiliary port to the splitter with the lift arms down (the shop manual says the auxiliary port uses the same flow as the lift arm cylinder), and with the other side of the splitter with an open hose going into a bucket. I wanted to flush the old fluid out of the splitter, and that worked just fine - I raised the lift arms some, and the fluid (old black nasty stuff) came out the other hose and into my bucket. I got about gallon out before the fluid looked normal, and dropped the lift arms and disconnected the splitter from the tractor. Then I added hydraulic fluid to the tractor to get it back to full.

Then I tried to hook the splitter back up again, with the return hose connecting to one of the remote's top two lines, and the other line from the splitter going to the auxiliary port hose. Here's what happened:
- I raised the lift arms, and they went up.
- I tried to use the splitter's remote, and it barely moved at all. Moved about an eighth of an inch a minute.
- The lift arms on the back of the tractor would - about every 20 seconds - jerk downward a tiny bit then go back up.
- The lift-arm-drop-and-rise was when the log splitter cylinder would move a tiny bit, not moving at all otherwise.
I thought maybe I should have used the other line on the tractor remote, so I swapped them, but got exactly the same thing. Once I disconnected it, the lift arms on the tractor worked completely normal.

I've got three guesses for what I did wrong. I mentioned at the top that tractor remote has a knob you can turn to work with single-action cylinders. I didn't change that. So, that might have been a problem. Second, in my manual for the remote, I just realized that it says:
"NOTE: When utilizing the remote valve auxiliary port connection for operating a remote cylinder, hold-down arms should be used on the tractor lift arms if the remote cylinder has an equal or greater cubic area than that of the tractor ram cylinder."
Third, of course, I may not know what I'm doing enough to hook this up right!

Any suggestions for how to set this up right? (And, yeah, I know the tractor's hydraulics are going to move the splitter *really* slowly. I just figured it would be faster than an inch every ten minutes...)

Thanks!

 

[mhb@ufe]

I have a Ford 860 with a Ford 311877 single spool remote on it. Works like this one at Steiner: https://www.external_link/FDS3364-Single-Spool-Double-Acting-Hydraulic-Remote-Valve-Kit, but it's not that one. If it helps, I can show some pictures of mine. Has one handle, for a pair of hydraulic lines. Has a knob you can turn to work with a single action cylinder or double action. It also has an extra port they call an "auxiliary port", that's basically always fed with hydraulic fluid.

I bought an old log splitter to use with it. The log splitter has its own remote of course, and has two hydraulic lines coming off of it.

My first thought for hooking up the splitter was to use the two existing hydraulic lines coming off my remote. But I figured that would require that I pull the control arm on the tractor one way (it's a spring-loaded arm, so it wants to return to center if you're not pulling it one way or the other) the whole time I'm using the splitter.

When I read more about the auxiliary port, I figured that was the way to go. So, I bought parts to run a hose off that, and planned to hook up one side of the splitter to that, with the other line from the splitter going to one of the remote's controlled lines.

First, I connected the auxiliary port to the splitter with the lift arms down (the shop manual says the auxiliary port uses the same flow as the lift arm cylinder), and with the other side of the splitter with an open hose going into a bucket. I wanted to flush the old fluid out of the splitter, and that worked just fine - I raised the lift arms some, and the fluid (old black nasty stuff) came out the other hose and into my bucket. I got about gallon out before the fluid looked normal, and dropped the lift arms and disconnected the splitter from the tractor. Then I added hydraulic fluid to the tractor to get it back to full.

Then I tried to hook the splitter back up again, with the return hose connecting to one of the remote's top two lines, and the other line from the splitter going to the auxiliary port hose. Here's what happened:
- I raised the lift arms, and they went up.
- I tried to use the splitter's remote, and it barely moved at all. Moved about an eighth of an inch a minute.
- The lift arms on the back of the tractor would - about every 20 seconds - jerk downward a tiny bit then go back up.
- The lift-arm-drop-and-rise was when the log splitter cylinder would move a tiny bit, not moving at all otherwise.
I thought maybe I should have used the other line on the tractor remote, so I swapped them, but got exactly the same thing. Once I disconnected it, the lift arms on the tractor worked completely normal.

I've got three guesses for what I did wrong. I mentioned at the top that tractor remote has a knob you can turn to work with single-action cylinders. I didn't change that. So, that might have been a problem. Second, in my manual for the remote, I just realized that it says:
"NOTE: When utilizing the remote valve auxiliary port connection for operating a remote cylinder, hold-down arms should be used on the tractor lift arms if the remote cylinder has an equal or greater cubic area than that of the tractor ram cylinder."
Third, of course, I may not know what I'm doing enough to hook this up right!

Any suggestions for how to set this up right? (And, yeah, I know the tractor's hydraulics are going to move the splitter *really* slowly. I just figured it would be faster than an inch every ten minutes...)

Thanks!

You can not use one of the remote lines for a return line due to the remote valve being in the neutral position so there is no way for the return oil to flow to sump. The best way would be for you to use the two remote lines and secure the remote valve handle in the direction that provides oil in the proper direction to the wood splitter valve.

Mark

 

[used red MN]

Using the tractor remotes, if when you are not moving the splitter cylinder and the hydraulics are loading then your splitter valve is likely set up for a closed-center system. Rare but possible.

 

[KJMClark]

Thanks Mark! So what's the purpose of that auxiliary port then? Sounds like it's just for picking something else up like the lift arms do. If I made a modified fill cover that the return hose attached to, so it went directly into the sump, would that be a horrible thing to do? The remote lines work fine, but they're really low flow.

Used Red, I'm not clear on what you mean. What does "the hydraulics are loading" mean? And are you talking about how to use it when I hook it up as Mark said, or something else? Thanks!

 

[mhb@ufe]

Thanks Mark! So what's the purpose of that auxiliary port then? Sounds like it's just for picking something else up like the lift arms do. If I made a modified fill cover that the return hose attached to, so it went directly into the sump, would that be a horrible thing to do? The remote lines work fine, but they're really low flow.

Used Red, I'm not clear on what you mean. What does "the hydraulics are loading" mean? And are you talking about how to use it when I hook it up as Mark said, or something else? Thanks!

You could use the port and return the oil directly to the sump but you would need to tie the lift arms down to get pressure and you wouldn't have any more flow then you get through the remote. The port is designed to be used with a single acting cylinder, with the lift arms tied down you could raise and lower the cylinder by using the three point touch control lever.

Mark

 

[used red MN]

Thanks Mark! So what's the purpose of that auxiliary port then? Sounds like it's just for picking something else up like the lift arms do. If I made a modified fill cover that the return hose attached to, so it went directly into the sump, would that be a horrible thing to do? The remote lines work fine, but they're really low flow.

Used Red, I'm not clear on what you mean. What does "the hydraulics are loading" mean? And are you talking about how to use it when I hook it up as Mark said, or something else? Thanks!

Just warning you about a rare possibly. Yes, when you connect it through the remote outlets on the tractor and are using it. Say you run the cylinder back and forth not splitting wood. If the tractor seems to have more load when you are not moving the cylinder as compared to when you are this would very likely mean the valve is set up for closed center hydraulics. A closed-center system stops the pressure supply flow into the valve when the spool is centered. The more common open center which you likely have lets the supply fluid loop through and back to the reservoir.

 

[KJMClark]

OK. So I'll forget about that auxiliary port - I'll probably just put the bolt back in it (has a special washer). I don't really have a use for it. I'll hook up the splitter to the remote's pair of hoses. I'll tie it one way and have someone operate the splitter to see if we like the direction of the control. If it's right, we leave it, if not I'll swap the hoses. If the tractor is having problems and blowing through the relief valve when the splitter controls are in the neutral/middle, we'll know it's a closed-center set up, and we'll just shut it all down and disconnect until I can get a better remote for the splitter.

Is that all right? Really appreciate the help you two!

 

[used red MN]

Just be careful swapping hoses which you really don’t need to do just push the remote lever the other direction. Some remote valves won’t like being fed in reverse and could blow out seals attempting that. I would like to believe the splitting control is setup so the valve control lever motion follows the direction the splitter cylinder moves. I would connect the hoses and hopefully the splitter cylinder is retracted. Then tie or hold the splitter lever in the extend direction. Then just crack the tractor remote, whichever way make the cylinder extend go with that. If there is an IN on the valve that one of the hoses to the tractor connects to that is the one that should have the supply or pressure side from the tractor hooked to it. Another way to do this if there is sections of hose between the tractor remote valve and the remote outlets. With nothing plugged in the remote watch the hoses you should be able to see which one tensions up when you move the lever a certain direction. Maybe mhb is familiar enough with the tractor model that he can tell you which remote will be pressured by which lever direction. If this is an add on remote there is never a guarantee. Also if you deadhead the remotes as I suggested, shut off the tractor and move the remote lever both directions to relieve the pressure against the coupler.

 

[KJMClark]

Followup - you were both right on the money. But three notes:
- This remote wasn't closed center. The only time the tractor worked harder was when the splitter was up against some of my nasty elm and couldn't make progress.
- I wanted the hoses hooked up so I could pull the remote (on the tractor) toward the back, because I have a lot more things I could tie that lever to toward the back of the tractor. As it turned out, it was happy to stay in the back position without anything holding it there.
- The part I didn't know about and found out 'the hard' way is that the remote on the splitter has a forward and back position and those are not interchangeable. Apparently the retract handle direction - which is toward the log - has a much lower pressure relief valve. The extend handle direction - which is away from the log (I thought that was totally counterintuitive), doesn't. If you set up the hoses so that the splitter remote works backward, you'll end up with a pressure relief valve screaming at you when the thing is barely touching the log. I went and bought a replacement valve at Tractor Supply, and reading the instructions on their valve spotted that difference.

When I got things hooked up as the gurus here said, and got the fluid direction right on the splitter too, I had a functioning splitter that turned a bunch of elm rounds into a pile of split wood in no time! Thanks for the help!