Starting issues 4000 diesel 3cyl

[338ftw]

Ive got a new 4DLT battery and alternator conversion. When the tractor is cold it starts good. Once its hot the thing wont start. It Acts like a dead battery. And when I put the volt meter on the battery its pulling it down to 7-8 volts. Its at 14v right after I shut it off and around 12.6 the next morning. I have new 2ga positive and 1ga neg cables. All connections are clean. I leaning towards the started since it only does it when its hot.

 

[sotxbill]

Your saying the starter does not turn over the engine when hot...

OR

You saying it turns over the engine, but the engine does not fire up and run??

On the first..... could be bad starter or selonoid, yes. I have a clamp on dc current meter and can actually measure starter current cold and hot. You can also measure battery voltage while cranking... battery voltage should... stay above 9.5 volts while cranking, as measure at the battery posts. Actually 10 volts is even better.

You could have a sulfated battery but usually that would show up more when cold...

I would also wonder about the head gasket.. does it blow bubble in the radiator when running???

 

[338ftw]

(quoted from post at 17:56:22 04/07/21) Your saying the starter does not turn over the engine when hot...

OR

You saying it turns over the engine, but the engine does not fire up and run??

On the first..... could be bad starter or selonoid, yes. I have a clamp on dc current meter and can actually measure starter current cold and hot. You can also measure battery voltage while cranking... battery voltage should... stay above 9.5 volts while cranking, as measure at the battery posts. Actually 10 volts is even better.

You could have a sulfated battery but usually that would show up more when cold...

I would also wonder about the head gasket.. does it blow bubble in the radiator when running???

I mean it cranks slower and slower and slower when hot. I hooked up my truck to it and it cranked over fine when hot so I dont think its the starter anymore. Guess Im taking the battery back to orileys. No bubbles in the radiator when running either.

 

[Sean in PA]

Could be the insulation on the windings inside the starter is getting old and brittle and getting cracks in it, and when things are hot and the wire expands the crack lines open up more and cause some shorting between the windings, similar to the way a coil on a gasser starts having issues when hot and eventually gets worse and has problems at cooler and cooler temps until it won't work at all.

 

[338ftw]

(quoted from post at 05:37:43 04/08/21) Could be the insulation on the windings inside the starter is getting old and brittle and getting cracks in it, and when things are hot and the wire expands the crack lines open up more and cause some shorting between the windings, similar to the way a coil on a gasser starts having issues when hot and eventually gets worse and has problems at cooler and cooler temps until it won't work at all.

PO put a new starter on it right before I bought but that doesnt mean anything. Ive always thought it cranked slow.

 

[Sean in PA]

(quoted from post at 09:14:19 04/08/21)

(quoted from post at 05:37:43 04/08/21) Could be the insulation on the windings inside the starter is getting old and brittle and getting cracks in it, and when things are hot and the wire expands the crack lines open up more and cause some shorting between the windings, similar to the way a coil on a gasser starts having issues when hot and eventually gets worse and has problems at cooler and cooler temps until it won't work at all.

PO put a new starter on it right before I bought but that doesnt mean anything. Ive always thought it cranked slow.

Any chance it has a gas ring gear and starter installed? I've seen that when folks swap transmissions around.

 

[338ftw]

(quoted from post at 07:54:12 04/08/21)

(quoted from post at 09:14:19 04/08/21)

(quoted from post at 05:37:43 04/08/21) Could be the insulation on the windings inside the starter is getting old and brittle and getting cracks in it, and when things are hot and the wire expands the crack lines open up more and cause some shorting between the windings, similar to the way a coil on a gasser starts having issues when hot and eventually gets worse and has problems at cooler and cooler temps until it won't work at all.

PO put a new starter on it right before I bought but that doesnt mean anything. Ive always thought it cranked slow.

Any chance it has a gas ring gear and starter installed? I've seen that when folks swap transmissions around.

That I dont know. It looks like it has the 5 starter on it. I did order a new one for a diesel so if it doesnt fit that will probably indicate a swap.

 

[sotxbill]

the jumping helped it so I'm betting battery or bad connection... right now I would bet battery. A true load test would show how the battery performs at high amperage.

 

[Deutz Lover]

I had the same thing happen to my 4000. It was the broad piece of copper lead at the back of the starter. Either corroded or not making enough contact. I think it connects from the brush/field to the solenoid contact stirrup. I initially thought it was the battery.

 

[87nassaublue]

If you're pulling the voltage down at the battery, you're not able to pull enough current from the battery, therefore the voltage drops more than usual. The tell tale is it spins over fine when you have your truck connected.

Now having said that, it could be one of two things. A bad battery or a dirty connection at the post or maybe you have one of those horrible clamp on ends. If you connection your multi meter directly to the battery posts and not the cable connectors and the voltage still pulls low, then it's the battery. If the voltage at the posts stay reasonably high and it drops when you're connected to the battery cable connectors, then you have a bad connection. It's very unlikely you have a problem with your starter.

 

[338ftw]

Ive got a 68 fastback with a high compression poor mans 428FE and pulled the optima red top out of it and put it the tractor. That thing cranked over faster than it ever has. Faster than it did when that 4DLT that I took out was fresh from the parts store. Tractor started right up. Took the battery in after that and they tried to tell me it tested good. No way its good pulling all the way down to 4v like it did tonight. They are swapping it out. New battery should be here tomorrow.