Super C disc brakes

[Rick Remmert]

I am having trouble with my Super C disc brake sticking in the closed position. I have to stomp on it to get it to release. Are any of you guys putting any kind of lubricate on the steel balls and in the grooves they run in or just running them dry? The steel balls, brake pads, and return springs are almost new. It also is only doing it on the left side. The right side works like it should.

 

[Janicholson]

I am having trouble with my Super C disc brake sticking in the closed position. I have to stomp on it to get it to release. Are any of you guys putting any kind of lubricate on the steel balls and in the grooves they run in or just running them dry? The steel balls, brake pads, and return springs are almost new. It also is only doing it on the left side. The right side works like it should.

No lube as in liquid. Only PTFE based spray on dry powder, and only on those balls/ramps. If the clearance in the assembly is too wide, the geometry can cause lockup. There should be .030" clearance when the entire housing is on the bench with all the parts stacked inside as they would be when mounted. Lay a flat edge across the housing and measure down to the top disc friction material. If more like .08 or .100, the housing should be machined so the clearance is near the above. Jim

 

[Rick Remmert]

No lube as in liquid. Only PTFE based spray on dry powder, and only on those balls/ramps. If the clearance in the assembly is too wide, the geometry can cause lockup. There should be .030" clearance when the entire housing is on the bench with all the parts stacked inside as they would be when mounted. Lay a flat edge across the housing and measure down to the top disc friction material. If more like .08 or .100, the housing should be machined so the clearance is near the above. Jim

Thank you. All the manuals I have don't show any part of your reply. They only tell you how to adjust the pedal play. I will give the above a shot and see what I come up with.

 

[560Dennis]

Are the pressure plates and ball cam ramp’s corroded ? They will need to bead blasting. Some way to remove so the pedals will expand to apply pressure .
Replacement balls are available at the bearing shops or well stocked hardware stores .

 

[kb46852]

YT has the disc brake ball bearings for sale here:

Farmall Disc Brake Ball Bearing for Farmall 200,230,2300,240,2404,2424,2444,2504,2544,2606,2656,300,330,340,3414,3444,350,3514,354,3616,364,384,400,404,424,444,450,460,504,544,560,606,656,660,666,686,B250,B275,B276,B414,B434,B450,H,HV,M,MD,MDV,MV,O4,

Disc Brake Ball Bearing M830T for sale, Measuring 7-8 inches, this ball bearing is used in many disc brake systems. Typically 4 or 6 used per wheel. Replaces OEM numbers 09384AB, 150734A1, 16028R1, 166264, 16779X, 17028R1, 20063060, 2073622, 211-1028, 211-1328, 211-19, 211-221, 31-1750393...

www.yesterdaystractors.com

 

[DeltaRed]

No lube!The balls are either pitted,or the ramps have a groove/step worn into them.

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

Thank you. All the manuals I have don't show any part of your reply. They only tell you how to adjust the pedal play. I will give the above a shot and see what I come up with.

That's because they never expected people to still be running these tractors 70+ years later.

The non-replaceable steel surfaces of the brake actuators, the inside of the drum, and the brake surface on the pinion carrier, all wear down over the years. All it takes is a few thousandths off each one to cause the brake actuators to overextend, "over-center" and lock up.

Why don't they sell thicker brake discs? Because the wear is all over the place. They'd have to make 10 different thicknesses of discs to account for the various levels of wear.

 

[Fritz Maurer]

Another possibility is an oil leak on that side.
These are self-energizing brakes. It only takes a little oil to make the disc sticky. Once the disc is adhered to the actuator on high cam, the brake won’t release because the actuator halves must rotate a tiny bit in opposite directions to roll the balls down the ramps and release the disc.
Hammering the brake pedal breaks this bond, and allows the brake to release.
Sweat and brake dust can cause the same problem. Make sure your housing boots are in good condition to keep out moisture and wildlife.
As far as lubricant goes, my personal preference is brush a little Never-Seez on the bosses where the actuators connect the housing.

 

[Levi81]

I am having trouble with my Super C disc brake sticking in the closed position. I have to stomp on it to get it to release. Are any of you guys putting any kind of lubricate on the steel balls and in the grooves they run in or just running them dry? The steel balls, brake pads, and return springs are almost new. It also is only doing it on the left side. The right side works like it should.

I always put a small amount of grease on each ball from my grease gun. It has never caused any problems for me. It also keeps the balls and ramp area from pitting. I also sand blast each brake surface when I rebuild them

 

[Jim Becker]

Why don't they sell thicker brake discs? Because the wear is all over the place. They'd have to make 10 different thicknesses of discs to account for the various levels of wear.

Has anyone tried oversize balls? Parts book says they are 7/8. McMaster has a package of 10, size 15/16 for under $20. A set of them would add 0.062 thickness to the assembly.

I've barely touched any of that style brake. So I don't know if this would work or cause some other problem.. And of course it would only work well if the problem is something around 0.090 to 0.100, or so bad 1-inch balls would work.

 

[Janicholson]

Has anyone tried oversize balls? Parts book says they are 7/8. McMaster has a package of 10, size 15/16 for under $20. A set of them would add 0.062 thickness to the assembly.

I've barely touched any of that style brake. So I don't know if this would work or cause some other problem.. And of course it would only work well if the problem is something around 0.090 to 0.100, or so bad 1-inch balls would work.

The grooves that the balls roll in are made with tooling that creates them to a specific radius on their full length and their end as deep as it goes. A bigger ball will not fit down into the grooves, it will rest on the edges and that contact will be weak and probably hold the plates much farther apart. A good thought, but it would require machining the groove/ramps to the new ball diameter while leaving the bottom at its current depth. it is easier to machine the housing mating surface. The wear on the expander surfaces, the Bull Pinion carrier surface, and the inside surface of the housing where the outer disc touches it is the issue. Even new discs can be too thin to get the brakes to work well. If disc remanufacturers made thicker than original friction surface thickness that would work, but just getting them to make new/relined discs is troublesome. The brakes are not designed well. The solution is to live with it about once every two years for adjustment and cleaning. with machining needed about every 25 years! Jim

 

[Levi81]

The grooves that the balls roll in are made with tooling that creates them to a specific radius on their full length and their end as deep as it goes. A bigger ball will not fit down into the grooves, it will rest on the edges and that contact will be weak and probably hold the plates much farther apart. A good thought, but it would require machining the groove/ramps to the new ball diameter while leaving the bottom at its current depth. it is easier to machine the housing mating surface. The wear on the expander surfaces, the Bull Pinion carrier surface, and the inside surface of the housing where the outer disc touches it is the issue. Even new discs can be too thin to get the brakes to work well. If disc remanufacturers made thicker than original friction surface thickness that would work, but just getting them to make new/relined discs is troublesome. The brakes are not designed well. The solution is to live with it about once every two years for adjustment and cleaning. with machining needed about every 25 years! Jim

The outer drums or covers can easily be machined down to bring it back to spec