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TW35 rebuild?


 
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Fordfarmer
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Location: Ladysmith, WI

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 3:38 pm    Post subject: TW35 rebuild? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Not something I want to do, but not going to have a choice...
Tractor has had some blowby since I bought it 9 years ago, but not all that much. Got some worse this spring, and LOTS worse chopping this fall, and got harder to start. Literally clouds of blowby. (no, not evaporated coolant - coolant level is OK, and no oil in water or vice-versa) Was plowing today, and it lost power, started missing. Guessing some rings let go. A little over 7500 hours.
So, my question is, how bad a bill am I looking at? Bore and sleeve the block, turn the crank if needed, new pistons/rings/bearings/gaskets... anything else I should expect to need replacing? Cam and lifters? Probably $6-7000? Can't tackle this one myself - no place with a cement floor that it will fit, and doubtful my hoist could handle a 401 anyway. Guess I REALLY need to get that 5000 running and sold. Sad
 
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jbirnsch
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Location: NE WI

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 4:06 pm    Post subject: Re: TW35 rebuild? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

You should not have run it to the point where it lost power. You could have scored a cylinder to the point where it has to be sleeved instead of just a bore of .020 over. Neighbor just had his TW20 engine rebuilt last fall by a dealer. It was more like $11,000 by the time they were done. To me that seems too much - by about $3000.

The other option is to get a reman engine from Alexander Tractor out of TX. They offer a 6 month warranty on there work. Assuming your core is good for the block. I would also do the head and injectors while your at it. Check the clutch and put in a new oil pump. There cost is $3495 and the core charge is $2000. You will be billed $5495. If your core is good then you get your core charge refunded.

We did this with our 9000 5 years ago and have since put on 1000 hours with no problems. We will do this if and when our TW30 engine gets tired.

Jason
Alexander tractor parts

 
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RickB
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 5:09 pm    Post subject: Re: TW35 rebuild? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

If his block, crank and rods are good, he should be able to sleeve and build his own short block for less than $3495 plus freight both ways, even paying the labor to do it. Head and fuel system work, gaskets and labor to R&R will be added in either case. I'll bet Alexander's doesn't sleeve any more bores than are absolutely necessary. I've had experience with a couple of their 'rebuilt' transmissions, 'nuff said.
 
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Old Ford Mechanic
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Location: Alabama

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 5:25 pm    Post subject: Re: TW35 rebuild? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The reman from Alexanders is at a reasonable price.It is however a shortblock.That means you are gonna need to have a good shop refurbish the cylinder head.It needs to be checked for flatness along with the valve grind.You also need to have the injector pump gone thru and recalibrated along with the injectors.You will also need a gasket set as you will need the oil pan,front gear cover,rocker cover and assorted other parts transfered from your engine to the new engine.Then after you get it running it needs to be set up on a dynometer to get the engine speed, fuel delivery, ect set correctly.I'd also inspect that turbo and the intercooler close also.If this is your main workhorse you need to get all right if you're gonna spend that much on it.These old 401's are bullet proof but,it pays to have a good experienced man do that work.A shop with that man and the dyno equipment is what i would try to find.You can build that engine cheaper than some other brands yourself but,a warranty from a dealer or shop is sometimes worth the extra $$$.Good luck.
 
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sd pete
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 5:32 pm    Post subject: Re: TW35 rebuild? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I had a 9700 That I had rebuilt in 1993 and the bill was $6000. Block was bored 20 over. Crank turned and block was line bored. Sure it will be a lot more now. The tractor had 7500 hours then and over 14,000 hours when I retired.
 
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RodinNS
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:25 pm    Post subject: Re: TW35 rebuild? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I dunno... I think I'd figure on handy 5 grand if I was doing it myself... and have the head, pump, injectors and turbo (if necessary) sent out.
I'll admit ot not having looked at piston prices lately... and mabey they've come down, but they used to be in the 4-500/slug range a few years ago. That would add quickly on a 401...
Then add sleves on, head work, pump, injectors. 5 grand might be rather hopefull.

However... I wonder. Has it been burning a lot of oil lately? Is there some off chance that this could be a fuel/pump/injector issue?
I've got a 201 right now with a bunch of busted rings. It burns a bit of oil but it otherwise pulls fine. Not noticable below what it should be.
You might have a head gasket issue too... Just some things to consider? Might pay to check that out rather than conclude the worst. Gasket isn't so expensive for a quick look.

Rod
 
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Fordfarmer
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:42 pm    Post subject: Re: TW35 rebuild? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I would just plan on sleeves, due to not wanting to tear it back down due to cavitation hole(s) in the cylinder walls. Planned on haveing the head gone thru too - just neglected to state that in the original post. Injection pump and injectors should be good - had been replaced less than 100 hrs. before I bought the tractor.
 
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Fordfarmer
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:53 pm    Post subject: Re: TW35 rebuild? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

It's used 1-2 qts. between changes since I bought it, but that was up to 4 qts. last year, and over 4 qts. in the last 50 hours or so... Pump and injectors were new less than 100 hours before I bought it (around 1200 hours now), so they shouldn't be the problem, but I won't rule them out. There is a local shop with a fair ammount of experience on Fords, and at least some on TW35's, planned on having them work on it. May also ask our former local Ford mechanic if he wants to tackle it, but I think this will be more than he wants for his home shop/after hours work.
 
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RodinNS
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 8:09 pm    Post subject: Re: TW35 rebuild? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

boogadah. That sucks. Was she baked before you bought her?
Yeah, I think you're getting the big chequebook out this time...
That may not be unusual tho. I do see a lot of Ford's of that vintage advertized with new engines in the 7500-8000 hour range. Not TW's specifically... just that vintage Ford.
Sadly, my 7710 is of that vintage... and hour range. Still only in the quart range yet tho....

Rod
 
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RodinNS
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 8:17 pm    Post subject: Re: TW35 rebuild? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

You might find that the price differential between 6 sleeves and standard pistons or a set of 20 over pistons is painfully cheap insurance if even one were to pinhole in 5 years time. Without actually checking the prices I'd even wager to guess that sleeves AND standards would be cheaper than 20 overs...
Lot of the queer oversizes are now dropped from the parts book... at least on some models. The TW35 is probably not one of the 'common' piston sets.


Rod
 
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RickB
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 3:33 am    Post subject: Gotta consider Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The Alexander's deal is going to cost $4500 minimum (including freight) just to get a short block on the floor next to the TW. Fuel system and head work will be over and above. I think that can be matched locally in most areas with as good or better quality control if the owner is informed and involved.
 
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RickB
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 3:35 am    Post subject: Correction Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Make that $4000. Not enough coffee this morning.
 
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RodinNS
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 5:55 am    Post subject: Re: Correction Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Yeah... I think 4 grand would probably cover a locally worked short block. I'd be inclined to go that route unless I was really stuck.
So hard to deal with someone 5000 miles away (for me) on something so technical... and if there is a screw-up, then the fight starts. Who pays freight.... who's fault... Ummmm, no. I'll do it myself, thankyou.
One thing I would consider is my LOCAL (I say local as in the one I deal with, which is not really local anymore, but...) NewHolland dealer. I could be wrong, but I think they still have a re-man program on completes and short/long blocks... and I'm quite certain they will stand behind their work. It seems to me that last I looked, their prices were quite in line such that I'd mabey wonder why I'd do the work myself considering the downtime involved.

Rod
 
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Fordfarmer
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 7:39 am    Post subject: Re: Gotta consider Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I don't know what freight would be, but WI to TX... gonna be high. I'll be checking at the local shop I planned on, plus asking at my "local" NH dealer. They are much more involved/knowledgeable in the Case/IH and New Holland lines than Ford, but I do know (and trust) one of their mechanincs. Time isn't a big concern at this point - I dont NEED the TW until next spring.
 
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Paul in MN
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:30 pm    Post subject: Re: TW35 rebuild? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Mark,

Sorry to hear about the TW 35. But for the sake of the checkbook, please do not jump to conclusions about the massive failure. You have been fixing and wrenching long enough to know there are a lot of possibilities in these engines that are not requiring the full O'H.

How long has it been since you adjusted the valve lash? Is that intercooler in the way for pulling the valve cover? I have had 2 "massive failures" that were nothing more than valve problems. In one case the valve lash had become a bit too wide and at full power tillage one push rod jumped sideways and got bent. When the valve lash gets wide the ends of the push rods get hammered and may lose contact with the rocker arm, get sideways loose and permanently bent. That engine had a significant miss, as the intake valve would not open. One other time I thought it bought the grave was when one rocker arm just broke, probably metal fatigue.

I'd go back to the basics and do a compression test. If you don't have the comp test equip, call or e-mail me. Then I'd pull the valve cover and look carefully and check all clearances.

As to the oil related problems, you may have a problem with the fuel pump diaphram. I think the 35 model trades engine oil with the injector pump. With our change in fuels, you may have compromised the fuel pump diaphram (especially if some methanol was added to the fuel..last winter maybe). Our (former) fuel dealer did this to us without notice. If that diaphram leaks, it will dillute the engine oil, and make for hard starting. The high level of thinned out engine oil will be smoking both as blowby, and exhaust.

A lot of these engines go way beyond 7500 hours.

I had to pull a heavy JD engine this summer and did not have a concrete floor or sufficient hoist. A neighbor loaned me his CAT TLB and I rigged a differential chain hoist from the raised bucket. The chain hoist gave me the fine tuning on lift and lower, and the loader gave me the firm point to lift from and the ability to move the engine around after it was out of the tractor. I wish I had concrete, but we did the job quite well with scrap cuts of carpet. We could see what we had dropped, and didn't have the dust of the dirt getting into the work. You just can't run a creeper on carpet though.

Best Wishes!

Paul in MN
 
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