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302a steering column assembly replace


 
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pibislandpet
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 11:20 am    Post subject: 302a steering column assembly replace Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I got a 302a and the steering just went out. I want to replace the steering column assembly rather than rebuilding it. Does anyone know where I could get one OR KNOW OF ONE THAT I COULD GET?
Rebuilding what I have is problematic so I would rather just remove and replace.

I believe that steering column assembly was used on a lot of industrial and Ag John deere's including 300 301 302 400 and also 2020 etc. In fact it was the steering column of all the lower end models in the 1970-1980's, Problem is I have not found a reference that cross compiles.

but here is a number T25295.a and another is t22829.a not sure if that is correct but Wengers claims these go on a bunch of the agricultural John Deere. The picture they show looks just like the 302a steering column assembly on my tractor!

Any help will be appreciated.

Peter

I am sure there is a replacement out there and if I could get the proper number that would be helpful.
 
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JDemaris
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 1:02 pm    Post subject: Re: 302a steering column assembly replace Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Are you 100% sure the problem is even IN the column? Most of the time, when the steering fails in those machines - it's the splines in the big cast-iron pitman arm that fastens TO the steeing-box output shaft. I've had to replace many, and they sell them new on this Webstie for half the price of Deere.

Also keep in mind that these columns in 300s, 301s, 302s, 310s, and some farm tractors are not all the same. Some are open-center and some are closed-center.
 
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peter risley
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 4:10 pm    Post subject: Re: 302a steering column assembly replace Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Yes I checked that by taking the pin from the bottom of the steering piston thus disconnecting the pitman arm from the steering control assembly. Sadly the steering wheel will not turn to the left of a spot where it apparently runs into something that stops it. Interestedly, it can move to the right a bit and the hydraulics appear to work. I guess that there is a physical obstruction like a wrist pin that has failed or something else.

I am preparing to take the assembly off, and then check to see what the problem is. But this is not the first time that this particular unit has failed. My friend rebuilt it when I was not able to participate, and so I do not know what the condition of the unit is.

I would much prefer to replace the unit, with a good one as since I am not a mechanic and since I really need this machine for my ongoing operations, it might be better to just replace it and then tear into the old one and see if it can be repaired, so I will have a spare in case.... Seems like this is a weak part of this tractor. But it did last about 15 or 20 years before it went out. From that standpoint, replacing it with a good one would be a potentially good investment.

When this hoe is running, it is a great machine and has and is doing a lot of work. That is why I wish to replace the steering column assembly if at all possible and your help is greatly appreciated.

Peter
 
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JDemaris
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 5:05 pm    Post subject: Re: 302a steering column assembly replace Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I don't know exactly what you've got because there were several different setups used, depending on your machine's serial #. 2020 farm tractor uses the same.

I was a Deere mechanic and had to fix many (300s, 302s, 310s, etc.). With 302s, I'd rarely have to remove the steering column. Most can be fixed by pulling parts out the top once the steering wheel is off. In some versions, all that goes bad is one big o-ring. Deere upgraded it to a harder material and once fixed, they hold up very well. Takes less then one hour. Inside the valve - in most - are two cartridges. One for left steering and one for right. They rarely go bad, and also cost a fortune. A pair would cost well over $1000, maybe even $2000 by now. I find it hard to believe you're going to find the correct complete steering column in a price-range that makes any sense.
 
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peter risley
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 7:51 pm    Post subject: Re: 302a steering column assembly replace Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thanks for the information. I am not sure what you mean by the cartridges. Is that AT 25490 ? All I have to go on is the parts manual which does not mention a cartridge. Also the complete steering column number is not mentioned. I did get a number from Wengers but that was for a 2020 and also some other models.

my serial # is 302470t

Also there was another number that they claim fits a 302. AL31515 They have a picture and it sort of looks like it, but... I will be calling them monday.

I will try to take it apart from the top and see whats up. Too bad I already removed it from the tractor. Would have saved me a lot of effort to do it on the tractor, but how would I know? If you could fix them in an hour, your way better than the mechincs I have had to deal with. None of them knew how to deal with this. Sometimes knowledge is real important!

what do you think I should be looking for? As I have said, it will not travel pass a point to the left. I just stops like it is hitting something. does not sound like a o ring to me but a failed metal problem.

Hope you might have some ideas on this.

Peter
 
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Tx Jim
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 4:36 am    Post subject: Re: 302a steering column assembly replace Reply to specific post Reply with quote

peter risley wrote:
(quoted from post at 23:51:34 10/02/10)Is that AT 25490 ? what do you think I should be looking for?
Peter


Peter
The part AT 25490 which subs to an AR81610 are the parts JDemaris is referring to, The steering body has 2 of them. They are what I'd call L & R turn valves that must be shimmed correctly to operate correctly. IIRC there is a pin operated valve in in each component(cartridge). Also as JDemaris stated ther's a SN break on the steering housing as shown

AT41310 HOUSING 1 SN 386945- (B) (MARKED
T42342)

AT72460 HOUSING 1 SN -386946 (B) (MARKED T74743 OR T82325)
 
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JDemaris
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 5:10 am    Post subject: Re: 302a steering column assembly replace Reply to specific post Reply with quote

AT25490 has been an obsolete part number for almost 30 years, but yes - it is the "cartridge." A new one is Deere part # AR81610. There are two, one for left turns and one for right turns.

As far as I recall, NO 2020 uses the same complete assembly, but they do use the many of the same internal parts.

The entire new assembly for your tractor used to be AT41284, but that too has been obsolete for 30 years. Your housing ought to have T42342 marked on it.

I bet, even if Wengers DID have a used one somewhere, they'd charge you close to a $1000 for it. And, internal condition will be "unknown." I stopped buying from Wengers in the 1980s. They've gotten very high (in my opinion). Marshalls, also in PA, has given me much better deals on used parts. Truth is though, used tractor parts is big business and it's very hard to find good prices on individual parts. That's why having your own parts machine is well worth it, if you get one cheap.

If it were mine, I'd get the seal kit (Deere AT316135), pull it apart, and see what's wrong. It's possible all you need is the kit. And,note that Deere gets $62 for that kit. You can find it aftermarket for half that price.
 
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JDemaris
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 4:39 pm    Post subject: Re: 302a steering column assembly replace Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Early 302 uses the same steering as the early 302A. But, I don't know anything about the assembly Walts has for sale.

Are you sure the one at Walts is for power steering? I can't tell from the photo, some of those tractors listed came with manual steering.
 
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peter risley
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 6:56 pm    Post subject: Re: 302a steering column assembly replace Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I guess that is the first question I will ask them. Also will call marshalls and check them out before I talk to wengers or the JD dealers.

It would be nice if that Waltstractor assembly worked but lots of questions to ask such as is it a rebuild or new and who did it and if it is not a rebuild will it fit in there with out extensive changes and of course will it handle power which seems to me to be the number one issue. I have never worked with Waltstractor so know nothing about them.

when I find out some info I will be letting you know whats up.

Also probably will call Pittsburgh tractor in Texas as they have been helpful in the past.

Peter
 
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cannonball
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 2:41 am    Post subject: Re: 302a steering column assembly replace Reply to specific post Reply with quote

put a 300b on a 2020 just added a pressure line, It has piston pump
 
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Tx Jim
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 3:37 am    Post subject: Re: 302a steering column assembly replace Reply to specific post Reply with quote

jdemaris wrote:
(quoted from post at 20:39:31 10/03/10) Early 302 uses the same steering as the early 302A. But, I don't know anything about the assembly Walts has for sale.

Are you sure the one at Walts is for power steering? I can't tell from the photo, some of those tractors listed came with manual steering.


Under description Walt's Tractors list JD 820 & 830 tractors which were open-center so it must be manual steering box. Plus the 2 part #s listed don't appear in the 302A parts cat part ndex.
 
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peter risley
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 1:25 pm    Post subject: Re: 302a steering column assembly replace Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Well here is what is happening to the steering column assembly issue.
I ordered one from California through a dealer, and they sent me the one with 3/8 inch bolts instead of the the one I have with 1/2 inch bolts. The guy they got it from claims it will fit and work if the holes are drilled to 1/2 inch. I suspect it is the same or similar one as what Walts tractor sells. I thought that they were sending me the original type but due to communication errors that is what I got. It is a used part.

I am not sure I wish to drill those holes out. I would like to talk to someone who has had this problem and did try to make it work, and was successful or not. Rather not go down that road unless I know there is an end to it! Would anyone be able to help me out on that issue?

The piston on the bottom of the assembly that I received is smaller in circumference to the original one or appears from looking at the bottom to be smaller. Perhaps this is not big enough to handle a 302a. But the salvage guy claims that it has been done before and is.

So question is should I try to find the original or try making the new one work?

need more info? Let me know. Anxious to hear from you as need direction on this.

Peter
 
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Tx Jim
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:00 am    Post subject: Re: 302a steering column assembly replace Reply to specific post Reply with quote


The power steering on JD utility tractors is power assist not true power steering. IMHO smaller piston would mean less assist .

This was until later models that went to hydrostatic power steering
 
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peter risley
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:09 am    Post subject: Re: 302a steering column assembly replace Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thanks for the info. Guess the weakness of this model is the steering.
I found a replacement, and it costs a fortune but I got to do it. I need that tractor running again! Hoping this time it lasts for a long time. The salvage guys that sent me the smaller assembly wanted me to drill the holes out (3/8 to 1/2) and put that one on. Maybe it would work, but since the parts on it are smaller, It would seem to me to be not only underpowered but also would wear out that much faster, especially with the loads I put on it.

Funny thing is that I went a long time without problems (maybe 12 or 15 years) before I had problems with the steering. I suspect it might have to do with the way it was replaced. Perhaps it was put back incorrectly and the shock of the turning of the wheel was somehow transmitted back to the piston in the assembly?

I want to put this back together properly so this will last another 15 years with only o-rings having to be replaced!

Your info is greatly appreciated. I am beginning to understand it.

Peter
 
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