Home |Gallery |Forum |Ads Today's Tractors
Today's TractorsThe Modern Tractor Resource Page

 
Featured Photo

Click to View

The Market
Tractor Parts
Tractor Manuals
Classified Ads
Tractor Shop

Features
Discussion Forum
Archives
Tractor Photos
Implement Photos
Combine Photos
Information
Model Profiles
Safety Issues
Manufacturers
Reading Room

Miscellaneous
Contact Us
Antique Tractors
Classic Trucks
Kountry Life
YT Forums
Discount Parts

[Home]
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   Traditional YT Forum ViewClassic View   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

This is the modern view of the Today's Tractors Forum. Just login with your YT Userid and password to post. If you have trouble logging in, contact us by email to support at ytmag.com, or through the Reader Form, and we will get you going right away.

Click here to return to Yesterday's Tractors Forum Index

Converting for oil bath air cleaner (2n)

Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic    Today's Tractors Forum Index -> Ford 9N, 2N, 8N
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
wsmm
Regular


Joined: 19 Sep 2004
Posts: 275


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:30 pm    Post subject: Converting for oil bath air cleaner (2n) Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Been debating about converting my 2n from oil batch to a dry filter. My oil batch has the pipe that runs up through the hood an has the glass jar pre-cleaner on it. Has any one done this? If so what did you use? Any reason not to? This is not a show tractor, just one I use occasionally around my property.

Thanks,
Bill
 
Back to top
View user's profile
souNdguy
Tractor Guru


Joined: 20 Aug 2002
Posts: 53228


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Converting for oil bath air cleaner (2n) Reply to specific post Reply with quote

keep the oil bath.. it's a DARN good filter if serviced properly.. especially if it has the optional settling jar..

soundguy
 
Back to top
View user's profile
Bruce (VA)
Tractor Guru


Joined: 24 Feb 2003
Posts: 12831
Location: Old Church VA

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Converting for oil bath air cleaner (2n) Reply to specific post Reply with quote

There is one major reason not to do that: the oil bath filter, when properly maintained, is much more efficient that a paper media filter in the conditions the tractor was designed to operate in.

Once you get it clean, dump the dirt out of the pre-cleaner as needed, change the oil in the cup once a year.....unless you work it 20 or 30 hours a week!

If you want to remove it, clean the media & put it back, just ask for info on doing that. A couple of hours work, maybe replace the media & it will out perform any paper filter you could get.
50 Tips

 
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
oldtanker
Tractor Guru


Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Posts: 8295
Location: Mn

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 7:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Converting for oil bath air cleaner (2n) Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Bruce (VA) wrote:
(quoted from post at 15:55:15 03/25/11) There is one major reason not to do that: the oil bath filter, when properly maintained, is much more efficient that a paper media filter in the conditions the tractor was designed to operate in.

Once you get it clean, dump the dirt out of the pre-cleaner as needed, change the oil in the cup once a year.....unless you work it 20 or 30 hours a week!

If you want to remove it, clean the media & put it back, just ask for info on doing that. A couple of hours work, maybe replace the media & it will out perform any paper filter you could get.
50 Tips


Somehow I question that. I've known a lot of farmers who had older tractors and they just don't get the overhaul interval that the tractors with dry element air cleans do. Even the guys that don't take good care of their equipment get a lot of hours with paper filters. BIL is one. He has an 826 IH that he and his dad got new. He is terrible about taking care of his equipment but he had a little over 10,000 hours on it before an engine overhaul. Yet I'm being told not to expect more than 2k on my N before an overhaul. Granted that's comparing a gas to a diesel but I would think it would go longer considering modern lub being run in the engine. So that means that A. overhaul kits for the N are substandard or B. that the filtering systems as not as good as they could be. I had an ONAN twin air cooled that had a paper air filter on it that ONAN claimed in extreme conditions should run 5K hours between overhauls and that was a gasser.

You can burn me at the stake for being a heretic later but I'm looking at changing my N over to a paper air filter when I go through the engine later this year......along with a 12 volt and IE conversion too!

Rick
 
Back to top
View user's profile Yahoo Messenger
Ultradog MN
Tractor Guru


Joined: 22 Apr 2001
Posts: 15300
Location: Twin Cities

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 11:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Converting for oil bath air cleaner (2n) Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Bruce your information is incorrect. Paper filters have been used almost exclusively on farm machinery since the 1970s because they are a superior filtration meduim. And that is to say nothing about the old oil bath filters that were rarely serviced as recommended by manufacturers.
Personally I would not convert an N to a paper filter. If only because you would likely have some cobbled on looking business that was prone to getting wet or damaged. Leave your filter alone and just service it regularly.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
John (TR)
Tractor Expert


Joined: 03 Mar 2004
Posts: 1514
Location: Rock Island, IL

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 12:36 am    Post subject: Re: Converting for oil bath air cleaner (2n) Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Why not modernize, the manufacturers have. My 8n that is my mower is 12 volt with backlit gauges including a temp gauge. A spin on oil filter and EI are in the future. If I could find a decent looking paper filter I'd switch that too
 
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
John (TR)
Tractor Expert


Joined: 03 Mar 2004
Posts: 1514
Location: Rock Island, IL

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 12:37 am    Post subject: Re: Converting for oil bath air cleaner (2n) Reply to specific post Reply with quote

By the time Ford was building the 3 cylinders the oil bath filter was long gone. Oil bath filters were on cars too at one time.
 
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Ultradog MN
Tractor Guru


Joined: 22 Apr 2001
Posts: 15300
Location: Twin Cities

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 4:16 am    Post subject: Re: Converting for oil bath air cleaner (2n) Reply to specific post Reply with quote

John,
Yes. Early in the production of your 2600 they made the switch. Like by June of 76 or so.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
JMOR
Tractor Guru


Joined: 13 Aug 2007
Posts: 15099


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 6:06 am    Post subject: Re: Converting for oil bath air cleaner (2n) Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Well, I can't say that I've ever seen any non-advertising related scientific information comparing the quality of filtration of oil bath vs paper, but I sure have seen a lot of opinions. I can offer a few factual advantages to some:
1) The simpler filter container of the paper type cost the manufacturer less to install than the more complex oil bath.
2) Service folks save time changing/cleaning.
3) It costs $62 for the dual paper elements in my MF275 vs 1/2 quart of oil for the 'N' and this provides a life-of-tractor stream of revenue for the dealer.
Twisted Evil
 
Back to top
View user's profile
Ultradog MN
Tractor Guru


Joined: 22 Apr 2001
Posts: 15300
Location: Twin Cities

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 6:30 am    Post subject: Re: Converting for oil bath air cleaner (2n) Reply to specific post Reply with quote

There was a thread/debate/argument over on Tractor Talk a year or two ago about oil vs paper. Lots of opinions, some bs. Someone there posted a link to a study that was pretty conclusive about the two types. Wish I could find the thread.
Anyway, the study concluded that the paper filter filtered out finer particles and was generally healthier for the engine than oil bath.
They addressed the lack of maintenance issue which again put the paper as better.
As for the cost issue I think it is cheaper to have a fleet of engines with paper filters and change them once in a while than pay the labor for a guy to go around servicing oil baths all the time.
I still wouldn't put a paper filter on an N though. Mostly for asthetic reasons. Oil bath IS sufficient. But not better.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
TheOldHokie
Tractor Guru


Joined: 08 Apr 2005
Posts: 6906
Location: Myersville, MD

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 7:49 am    Post subject: Re: Converting for oil bath air cleaner (2n) Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Ultradog MN wrote:
(quoted from post at 10:30:27 03/26/11) There was a thread/debate/argument over on Tractor Talk a year or two ago about oil vs paper. Lots of opinions, some bs. Someone there posted a link to a study that was pretty conclusive about the two types. Wish I could find the thread.
Anyway, the study concluded that the paper filter filtered out finer particles and was generally healthier for the engine than oil bath.
They addressed the lack of maintenance issue which again put the paper as better.
As for the cost issue I think it is cheaper to have a fleet of engines with paper filters and change them once in a while than pay the labor for a guy to go around servicing oil baths all the time.
I still wouldn't put a paper filter on an N though. Mostly for asthetic reasons. Oil bath IS sufficient. But not better.


Most everything today is paper simply because it is easier to service. Big Caterpillar construction equipment that operates in the worst possible conditions use multiple paper elements. A cyclone pre-cleaner is standard on some models and can be added as an option on others. Caterpillar touts the the pre-cleaner as a cost-effective way to extend the life of the pricey paper elements - particularly in abnormally harsh environements like quarries.

There is no real debate on one aspect however - the oil bath cleaner is cheaper to maintain and messier to service Exclamation

TOH
 
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Jubilee85 (VA)
Regular


Joined: 11 Aug 2009
Posts: 378


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 10:58 am    Post subject: Re: Converting for oil bath air cleaner (2n) Reply to specific post Reply with quote

UD,

I would have thought that the oil bath would be more effective...but this cut and paste from the net does make sense....

(not my words - but he does a good job 'splain' it)

January 4th, 2010 at 4:41 pm
It is a myth that oil bath air cleaners are highly effective in removing FINE dust from air—the type of dust that we see hanging in the air and gets sucked into the engine’s inlet. Oil bath air cleaners are about as effective as seining minnows using hog wire fence. How do I explain this without 10 pages of technical formulas and explaniations why fine dust cannot travel rapidly from the center of an air bubble to the spherical surface of an air bubble even under several Gs of inertia force? The air bubble traveling thru oil only contacts the oil at the bubble’s surface. Fine dust away from the surface of the bubble escapes capture in the oil resevoir which amounts to about 90% of the fine dust within the bubble escaping capture. So what does the wire mesh accompolish? Very little. Air traveling past the wire mesh’s surfaces creates a boundary layer which has a similiar affect to having a glove on your hand. When passing thru the wire mesh, only a small percentage of the air’s volume gets used as boundary layer. Most of the dust-filled air passes thru the short length of wire mesh with out contacting any oil on the wire mesh’s surface. If the length of wire mesh was say 20 feet instead of a few inches, a lot of the dust would get trapped. Inside the engine, most of the dust in the air exits thru the exhaust but some of the dust contacts the oil on the cylinder wall. This dust acts like a lapping compound that wears out the sleeve and rings. It eventually shows up as crud inside the engine or as the black color of the oil.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
gahorN
Tractor Expert


Joined: 31 Mar 2004
Posts: 3031
Location: Spicewood (Austin), TX

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 11:04 am    Post subject: Re: Converting for oil bath air cleaner (2n) Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Jubilee85 (VA) wrote:
(reply to post at 14:58:45 03/26/11)


The best filters are oiled-paper or oiled-foam. If you really want to clean the intake-air on your N-Ford.... yet keep it "ORIGINAL" looking.... then modify it INTERNALLY by installing a piece of oiled-FOAM in there. YOu can use a large piece of Briggs and Stratton element, lightly oiled. Be certain to Pop-rivet a large coarse screen (1/4" hardware cloth would work) t o prevent the foam being sucked into the intake tubes toward the carb.

When it's time to service it (about every 25 operating hours) simply wash it out in solvent, re-oil it, squeeze out the excess..and reinstall it. Razz

Cheap AND Effective.
 


Last edited by gahorN on Sat Mar 26, 2011 11:06 am; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile
jon
Tractor Guru


Joined: 25 Jan 1998
Posts: 4054
Location: Foot of Mt. Mitchell

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 11:17 am    Post subject: Re: Converting for oil bath air cleaner (2n) Reply to specific post Reply with quote

WSMM wrote:
( If so what did you use?

I'm hard-headed & a tad old school so I still like the oil bath but you could probably find something similar to this to fit the MS carb.
There's cheaper one's out there than K&N though.


 
Back to top
View user's profile
showcrop
Tractor Guru


Joined: 13 Dec 2000
Posts: 10936


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 11:54 am    Post subject: Re: Converting for oil bath air cleaner (2n) Reply to specific post Reply with quote

my 960 has a K&N on the end of the intake tube. It nestles up in there good and looks like the original oil bath is still in use.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Today's Tractors Forum Index -> Ford 9N, 2N, 8N All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Advertisement
Repair/Service manuals available for Allis, Ford, Farmall, John Deere and most other makes and models of tractors. If you are expecting to make repairs to your tractor, check our large online catalog of manuals. We probably have just what you need! Current Special - FREE book offer.    [Click here to visit this Sponsor]

Home | Manuals | Parts

Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and
content, without written permission is strictly prohibited.
Copyright © 1997-2013 TodaysTractors.com

Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others.