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Scissors or straight long ram for dump trailer??

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Truck
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 9:59 am    Post subject: Scissors or straight long ram for dump trailer?? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I am building a small 8 foot long dump trailer from an overbuilt small trailer I have had for years.. Got the tandem axles figured out, and went to mount the pickup truck dump flatbed on it, only to find out the ram on the flatbed is setup, all rusted and doesn't move at all. It is one of those scissors units,like you nee Northern Hydraulics selling to convert a pickup bed into a dump truck.

Now that I have to go and buy a new ram, should I stick with the scissors design, or should I go with a longer straight ram? Bed and trailer are both 6 inch channel. It'll be powered by the electric hydraulic unit that powered the flatbed dump originally, or maybe a liftgate pump I have. Box will be about 6 foot wide, steel with maybe a wood floor and sides. The main use for it will be hauling demolition waste and shingles to the dump, occasionally small loads of dirt hauling too.

ANy thoughts on which style lift is a better design or goes up higher?
 
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old
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:10 am    Post subject: Re: Scissors or straight long ram for dump trailer?? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Straight ram is the best way to go. Has a lot more lift and less moving parts to boot. Just look at a regular dump truck and the heavy duty ones have a straight ram NEVER a scissors set up
 
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Bill in IL
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 11:07 am    Post subject: Re: Scissors or straight long ram for dump trailer?? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

That scissor lift will be cheaper to build. If you can get to an auction you could pick up a used one for under 75 bucks at least in this area. Its going to take a lot more oil capacity to lift a multistage cylinder vs the small scissor lift but you will get more lift power. Its going to depend upon your pump.

I built a 4X8 dumper with a 3" cylinder on a scissor lift and my wd45 will lift it loaded with dirt (5000lbs) but the farmall M will not due to being a low pressure system.

Lifting higher is all in your design and size of the cylinder or scissor lift. The closer you have your lifting device to the pivot point the more effort it will take to lift your load but you will get more height.
 
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bernie/ma
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 1:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Scissors or straight long ram for dump trailer?? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

my platform dump has rockers and rollers. always worked good but has a long cylinder. hand in a cast, can't do caps.
 
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Puddles
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:52 am    Post subject: Re: Scissors or straight long ram for dump trailer?? Reply to specific post Reply with quote


I have also been told that a straight cylinder was best, but that was by the salesman who sold me my 14,000-pound PJ dump trailer! Over the years I have built 3 flatbed dumps for myself, always used the scissor system in them, never had any problems with any of them. The dump trailer is just over 2-years old, and no problems with it either! In my mind it doesnít seem to matter either way.


 
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 3:06 am    Post subject: Re: Scissors or straight long ram for dump trailer?? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

either will work fine for your application, i have a sissors style on my 1 ton, and a single 3 stage ram on my big truck, the single ram is faster to raise the only one you do not want is the dual cylinder type there dangerous as all get out,
 
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circus
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 3:17 am    Post subject: dangerous as all get out Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Having two 3 stage rams on my PU for 20 years, I'm wondering whats the hazard? Twisting or something?
 
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:50 am    Post subject: Re: dangerous as all get out Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Yeah, I'm curious about that too.. there seem to be a bunch of dump trailers out there using a dual ram system and they seem real proud of 'em.

Right now I'm leaning towards gettting a new ram for my Scissors system, it's already built and looks to be the cheapest ram to buy..

On hydraulic rams, the diameter isn't the chrome rod's diameter, it would be the diameter of the body of the cylinder minus the thickness of the walls, right? Trying to decipher exactly what size this ram was... doesn't want to move at all, but I might do some surgery to it just to see what it looks like inside before I scrap it. DOn't worry, Not gonna get near it with a cutting torch...lol.
 
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Oldmax
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 5:06 am    Post subject: Re: Scissors or straight long ram for dump trailer?? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I made a dump trailer, an made the scissors dump for it from a cyl & power unit off a discarded tail gate. Cyl was 4" with 9 1/2" travel the CO I worked for gave my the Cyl & power unit as they were scraping tail gate.

 
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:49 am    Post subject: Re: Scissors or straight long ram for dump trailer?? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I've got a liftgete in the yard but it was a one way setup, gravity down.. and all the dump kits I have seen are dual action cylinders and pumps for some reason..Price is definitely right, however and you might just have convinced me to look a little closer.

Have you had any trouble with getting your bed back down once dumped? It could be a double for the trailer I'm building except I am using leaf springs....yours looks nice!
 
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ericlb
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 7:34 pm    Post subject: Re: dangerous as all get out Reply to specific post Reply with quote

just got back, ok the dangerous part of dual cylinders it this sooner or later a hydraulic hose is going to bust,what happens on a dual cylinder system is the cylinder that has the busted hose will collapse very fast, leaving 1 cylinder on 1 side of the truck extended, since part of the load will usually still be in the bed when this happens the weight shift will roll the truck over nearly every time,[ ive personaly seen 2 do this and heard of others] if somebody is standing near like a spotter they will probably be killed, at the very least it will severly warp the frame on the truck making it usless, with a single ram or a sissors hoist when a hose fails the bed will come straight down very fast, and scare the crap out of everyone, maybe bend the truck frame maybe not but the truck will still be upright and nobody is hurt,dual cylinders used to be common, but nobody here will have one anymore , they look like they would be a good safe thing to have reality is just the opisite, [ i operate dump trucks for a living the last 27 years as well as personaly own 3, so i have some experience with these critters hope the explination makes sence
 
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 5:09 am    Post subject: Thanks for the explanation, Eric! Reply to specific post Reply with quote

That make a a whole lot of sense, and is something I never would have thought about.. Thanks!
 
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Oldmax
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 3:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Scissors or straight long ram for dump trailer?? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

It is power up gravity down.

It comes down fine just a little slow as I used the restricker valve that was used on the tail gate also.
 
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Roy Suomi
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 5:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Scissors or straight long ram for dump trailer?? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Straight lift beds otta be outlawed....If you think about it , When you lift a body with a straight lift cylinder , what are you doing ???? Think about it..You"re trying to shove that dump body off the frame rails against the hinge point...With a scissor hoist , you"re actually pushing the body up..Scissor hoists usually have more starting power than a straight push cylinder..I sold Crysteel dump bodies for several years..I"ve seen the straight push units in dumping tests and the scissor hoist did a better job of getting the body started up..the Roller Combo hoist is Crysteels bread and butter hoist..Very few failures , usually due to lack of lubrication , or jerking the load out....
 
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 3:57 am    Post subject: Re: Scissors or straight long ram for dump trailer?? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I have had one of those so-called dangerous twin cylinder hoists for over 20 years and never a problem. Mine has a Tee in the line for both cylinders to feed from that way if one hose blew it would let both down. The hoist I"m talking about is a twin telescopic. I have 2 versions one is a Scott hoist the other came off an old truck I bought for scrap 15 years ago. The Scott has lifted everything I wanted to including the 18ft grain box full of gravel with a 30 inch overhang.
 
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