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Discbine or haybine?


 
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Clodhopper Pete
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 5:58 pm    Post subject: Discbine or haybine? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I am thinking about buying a new used hay mower. The NH 488 I have is pretty well shot. Are there discbines that are worth owning in the $5k range or are they all pretty much junk by then? It seems like I could get a pretty decent haybine for half of that. I have never used a discbine so I don"t have too much of an idea of what to look for in one and where the problems tend to lie in them. There were a couple of NH 411 I was going to look at and a JD 1327. Thanks for any help. The last thing I want to do is end up with something that gives me as much trouble as the mower I already have.
 
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hayray
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Location: Brighton, Michigan

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 6:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Discbine or haybine? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I traded my old John Deere disc mower conditioner in for $3800 and it was 16 years old with no problems. The dealer sold the mower shortly afterwards and last I heard it was still working good. I think it got sold for somewhere between the 4 or 5 K range. The thing I have heard is that you should see the machine running to make sure there are no gear box troubles.
 
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NEIADan
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 6:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Discbine or haybine? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Well i am going out on a limb here. I know everyone that has a discbine believes they are the best thing going. My experience was with a New idea 5209 discbine. it was the most costly machine I ever owned. Averaging about $8 an acre and many hours of labor.
I attribute the cost to the conditions not the machine. We farm in an area that has rocks and I rent most of my hay acres and don't have control over how the rocks or debris was previously picked up.
When we purchased our new Mac Don 5020 sickle machine our repairs have dropped to less than $.50/acre. so far this year 120 acres cut with 5 guards and 2 sickle sections.
A sickle machine offers other advantages as well.
One is closer cut averaging 5% more yield per acre. The other is the cleaner cut and faster regrowth. we have observed at least a 3 day regrowth advantage with the sickle machine.
Advantage to the discbine is a faster ground speed, but, it is just like your lawn mower you can go faster but it won't do as good a job of cutting.
 
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J heitkemper
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 7:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Discbine or haybine? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Rocks can killthe best discbine / disc mower will throw rocks thru instead of playing bad minton at $10 a hit....... Lost a lotta religion and $3500 bucks when I finally traded the 5209 that I bought mildly used /or abused .. NEW IDEA , Gehl and Vermeer JUNK are pooorly engineered .... Currently using my 3rd used Nh489 in 24 yrs... 1st one hardly has any rubber left on rollers , now a parts machine for the other 2 ,, my expenses are zilch compared to the tinker time keeping the reel and cuuter tuned .. BUT .I am still hEadaches ahead of a discbine .........
 
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JMS/.MN
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 8:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Discbine or haybine? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Bought a new NI 5209 in 1990, sold it to my son about 2002-3. He runs it with a 3020, I had it on the 4430 or 4240. Typically cut 120-140 acres 3x per year. Maintenance was nil- but we pick rocks. Certainly no $8 per acre maintenance. One year I did replace a gear assembly in a cutterhead- it was about $175. If you run rocky fields, doesn"t matter which machine you run- you will buy parts. Replaced a 14 foot 800 JD swather, and would cut the same 5 acres per hour. In 11 years- I never plugged it- anything going in the front, came out the back in a new windrow. Really fun to cut into pointrows! If I still farmed fulltime, would I look at others? Yes. I would lean to NH before JD.
 
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JMS/.MN
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 8:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Discbine or haybine? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Maybe the difference is the dealer? I was blessed with someone who is always running late- because he brings out the machine and takes the time to set it up right. In the field, we ran a few yards, and he set the springs that float the head. Switch to a different tractor, with a different drawbar height they need to be reset when you have obstacles! When he saw my 4430, he said I can run as fast as I can stay in the seat! Field was a half mile long, each round I punched it up a gear. Got into 7th- 11 mph, for a few hundred feet, just to see if it could cut at that speed. Next round I saw the rabbit that was filleted, on top of the windrow. Went into weeds, higher than the cab, down to 2-3 mph- cut it down to the ground. He didn"t get to pull that machine home.
 
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hayray
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 2:50 am    Post subject: Re: Discbine or haybine? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I have never had much of a problem with rocks messing anything up in my discbine. Once in a while I bend a knife and then just change it. I keep extra knives with me in the tool box of my NH 1409. You have to have really big rocks to bend a knife. But in normal hay fields the discbine just out performs and handles lodged crops much better. I switched back in the early 90s and never went back.
 
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NY 986
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 4:51 am    Post subject: Re: Discbine or haybine? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Around here it will take some luck to find a quality disc unit in that 5000 dollar range. Most dealers I have talked to have said they usually do not get traded till there are maintenance/wear issues (which is typical on a lot of sickle-type units, also).
In my opinion, you can see wear/abuse issues far easier on a sickle unit than a disc unit (enclosed cutter gearcase). You will be able to find a nice sickle unit in the 5000 dollar range (NH 489, 492; JD 1209, 1219; IH 1190 and others).
 
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bison
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 3:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Discbine or haybine? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I found that no matter what you buy will do what it was intended for ,as long as it is well adjusted and maintained.
other thing i found is that a used machine wether bought private or from a dealer will need going over completetly as there are always issuess that no one tells you about and is the main reason its for sale to start with.

all these claims of people running a discbine at idiot speeds always results in disaster one time or another.I had a neighbor bragging about cutting 160 acre in 10 hrs with his brandnew case disc bine. next i heard he had hit a rock the size of a wheel barrow.
Bend the cutterbar beyond repair and broke the header right of the pivot tonque. Bye bye 30 grand.
 
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RodinNS
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 5:03 am    Post subject: Re: Discbine or haybine? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

You can sometimes find a decent discbine for that money. More often not...
You'd probably fare better at auctions or the end of the season when nobody is thinking about cutting hay that right now where everybody is cursing their haybine and wishing they had a discbine.
I would suggest a Kuhn over all others followed by one with a Kuhn cutterbar. Older Deere's and NewHolland's had a Kuhn bar. There's also two different bars... the old Deere's (1326,1327) had a one piece, 6/7 disc bar. The 1350/1360/1460 use a somewhat newer 5/ disc modular bar. The old one is probably a better bar... but harder to repair. The newer one can have every module changed without opening the bar up... so if you do happen to shear a shaft off because of a rock you can change the module out in about 1/2 an hour instead of half a week.
Just check them over for loose discs (bad bearings or shaft/hub splines), bad pulleys on the gearboxes and bad slip/over running clutches. CV joints on models so equipped is also a favorite money pit.
Checking the conditioner rollers goes without saying...

You can keep a lot of the parts buying down on a discbine IF you set the skid shoes such that the bar is up about 3" or so and the float springs are set to carry a lot of weight. Then tip the angle of the bar ahead to get the desired cut length. A correctly set discbine will cut at twice the speed of a haybine in any moisture condition and do a cleaner job. Rocks are the killer tho... so keep the bar set a bit higher and lighter so it bounces over.
Also... don't plan on exceeding the maximum recomended power. I've found that things in the driveline start going to pieces fairly quick if you start pushing power into them...
Personally I'd not even cosider owning a haybine. I don't have the patience for it.

Rod
 
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showcrop
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 5:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Discbine or haybine? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Pete, I bought a 9 year old new holland 411 about five years ago for about $4500 from a reputable dealer and it has done very well by me. Like anything else they can have hidden problems. I would suggest checking for side to side and up and down play at the edge of the discs where the knives mount. you shouldn't be able to lift up more than about 1/32 or side to side more than about 1/16 without moving the next one. If you do buy a 411 keep after the header lift pins and like Rod says keep good high shoes on it if you have any rocks in your area. Mine has adjust on the fly header tilt which is great in a year like this when hay is lodged so bad.
 
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Bill in Colo
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Location: Rio Blanco,county Colorado

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 8:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Discbine or haybine? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I've a had two self-propelled sickle machines and they wouldn't hold a candle to my NH 1431 discbine hydro-swing machine. the only thing better would be able to afford to go back to a self propelled unit. I'm looking for a 13.5 ft unit under 50k brand not important.
 
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