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TO-35 points, condenser


 
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Grandfatherjim
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 4:01 pm    Post subject: TO-35 points, condenser Reply to specific post Reply with quote



58 TO35
gradually started running worse
then would only run if I pulled out the choke frequently just as it sounded like it was going to die
then would only do that for a bit, and backfire violently and quit
would only restart after cooling down
when very cold, started excellently
got it bucking and farting back to the garage...kaboom! big flames out the exhaust
"fuel problem" they all said, knowingly. so I chased that for a while...
finally woke up and remembered "90% of carb problems are in the ignition system"
points didn't even have a gap. Don't know how it ever started
So - here is the interesting thing. I put these new points and condenser in as a preventive measure when I got the tractor maybe four years ago, but have only put 38 hours on it. They were so cooked that the plate holding the moving point got hot enough that the plastic part melted and ended up at a weird angle as you can see in the picture. I suspect the condenser more than the points but I did notice (and was reminded from when I first installed them) that there was virtually no adjustment range on these. Well, you could adjust them from almost closed to always closed. So what I had to do, back then, was bend the fixed point away, but then it was leaning at an angle - not so good.

Now I will finally get to my point - are there known good sources of points and condensers out there? I run into this same situation with the old cars I play with. Some are just bad, worth avoiding. Often the word China is involved, but it doesn't seem to be a guarantee. Maybe it happens in batches.

Tractor has Delco electrics, by the way.
Thanks,
Jim
 
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Grandfatherjim
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 4:05 pm    Post subject: Re: TO-35 points, condenser Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Oh yeah another thing - on both the old set and replacement set, there is a hole right through the middle of the fixed point, and a little nub on the moving point that fits right into the hole. Anyone know what's up with that? Makes gapping them pretty much hit and miss.
 
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rvirgil_KS
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Location: Northwest Kansas

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 4:49 pm    Post subject: Re: TO-35 points, condenser Reply to specific post Reply with quote

"and was reminded from when I first installed them) that there was virtually no adjustment range on these. Well, you could adjust them from almost closed to always closed."

I have found this to be a very common problem in the cheap points that come in cheap kits. The problem is the plastic block on the movable arm that rubs on center post of distributor is too short and will not allow them to open far enough when setting the gap

Pay the price and get a good set of NAPA/Echlin or Standard/Blue Streak points. Do not get the cheap ones that come in a kit with points, condenser, rotor
 
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Steve@Advance
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 6:34 pm    Post subject: Re: TO-35 points, condenser Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Did you check the shaft bushing for wear? Those are known for getting loose, no way to keep the points set properly.

Incorrectly gaped points will overheat no matter what the quality.

Also, do you know what coil it has? It needs to have about 3 ohms resistance across the terminals, including the resistor if needed, for a 12v system.

And there is also the electronic conversion kit. No more sourcing, adjusting, replacing points!
 
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Bob
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 7:14 pm    Post subject: Re: TO-35 points, condenser Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The hole in the grounded contact was for air flow for cooling. Standard Ignition brands that type of points as "heavy-duty/ventilated".

The moveable point started out slightly convex, with no "nub".

The semicircular gouge forming the "nub" is metal etched away over time by point arcing.

One point being so badly worn indicated a mis-match between coil and condenser.

From an old Delco Remy manual...

"Contact pitting results from an out of balance condition in the system which causes the transfer of tungsten from one point to the other so that a tip builds up on one point and a pit on the other. The direction in which the tungsten is transferred gives an indication for correcting the situation. If the tungsten transfers from the negative to the positive point increase the capacity of the condenser. If the transfer is from the positive to negative point, reduce condenser capacity".
 
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Grandfatherjim
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:35 am    Post subject: Re: TO-35 points, condenser Reply to specific post Reply with quote


That's interesting; I have never seen that before. In this case it went from positive to negative indicating the condenser was too large. But I never would have thought that I'd need to check the condenser value when I bought it as a set from someplace and it was listed for use on a TO-35.
Maybe I have the wrong coil. I'll measure that next time I get the chance. Now that it's running well I'll have to make a point of remembering.
Meanwhile the chain broke on the snowblower so I'm off in that direction ow, trying to hunt down a local supplier of size 50 roller chain. The fun never ends with old iron....
 
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257 Roberts
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 6:29 am    Post subject: Re: TO-35 points, condenser Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I got tired of cheap points that at best work ok when new and just get progressively worse from there. Bought a Pertronix from this site and never looked back, best thing I ever did to the tractor. Starts faster, runs more smoothly, Champion D18 plugs look textbook perfect when I pull them out. Another good thing, with the electronic ignition you can use resistor wires which don't corrode so badly and can be sourced anywhere.
 
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Armand
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:58 am    Post subject: Re: TO-35 points, condenser Reply to specific post Reply with quote

257 Roberts wrote:
(quoted from post at 11:29:18 12/22/16) I got tired of cheap points that at best work ok when new and just get progressively worse from there. Bought a Pertronix from this site and never looked back, best thing I ever did to the tractor. Starts faster, runs more smoothly, Champion D18 plugs look textbook perfect when I pull them out. Another good thing, with the electronic ignition you can use resistor wires which don't corrode so badly and can be sourced anywhere.


I too went to the Pertronics electronic ignition on my TO35. Very happy with it. Same results 257 Roberts stated. I didn't know you could change to resistor wires though. Is it worthwhile changing the wires or leave well enough alone?
 
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257 Roberts
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 11:40 am    Post subject: Re: TO-35 points, condenser Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I would just replace them when you do the cap and rotor or when you notice corrosion/cracked insulation/etc. Pertronix assured me that either type of wire will work.
 
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Armand
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 3:13 pm    Post subject: Re: TO-35 points, condenser Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Thank you sir
 
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Grandfatherjim
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:37 am    Post subject: Re: TO-35 points, condenser Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Got back to the tractor and the coil primary is measuring 1.86 ohms, so maybe it's a 6v coil that someone put there. I'll try changing that and see whether the points last a while now.

Regarding the Pertronix - I am also addicted to old British cars and there is ongoing debate about Pertronix in that world. Not that they don't work, or provide smoother running, but that over the longer term the Hall sensors (magnetic pickups) can fail and leave you stranded. There are two schools of thought: a) use Pertronix and carry a spare set of points in your toolbox so you can get home, or b) just use points.

I did a Crane 700 electronic ignition with optical pickup (to avoid the Hall sensor issue) upgrade to our old camper a few years ago, and it ran great. The timing mark was the narrowest I'd ever seen under the timing light, and the old bus ran great and idled so smooooooth. Then it died, and now I am back to points in it.

So to each his own, but for now I'm sticking with points, since they are fixable.
 
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257 Roberts
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:25 pm    Post subject: Re: TO-35 points, condenser Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Yep, sounds like a 6 volt coil to me. Probably should try a real 12 volt coil before anything else.

Even if the Pertronix failure rate is as high as some say it is, it is still more reliable than points for me. Over the long run it is going to be cheaper due to fuel savings, spark plugs lasting longer, no more points and condenser to buy, and less time spent doing tune ups. My TO-35 never started as easily or ran as smoothly as it does now with the Pertronix, even with brand new points/condenser/cap/rotor/plugs.
 
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