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is it even legal?

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showcrop
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 5:05 am    Post subject: Re: is it even legal? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

kcm.MN wrote:
(quoted from post at 01:16:53 08/04/17) I always strap/chain things down as though I expect to be in an accident. Reason being, if my load comes loose under the additional G-forces of an accident, I don't want my load killing someone else. If in an accident, there will be a brief moment where that 5,000 lb. tractor could weigh much, much more.


KCM, you are actually doing the minimum. Holding in an overturn or a major front end impact is what the regs are based on.
 
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ericlb
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 3:08 pm    Post subject: Re: is it even legal? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

its not just a question of "leagle" i use straps on my light tractors too, [ below 3500 lbs] but never on the heavies, it may be leagle, but the question for me is if i have some joker pull out in front of me, or get in a accident, do i really want a big heavy tractor possibly breaking loose and installing itself in the back of my truck? big tractor use chains and binders
 
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showcrop
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:36 pm    Post subject: Re: is it even legal? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CVPost-ericlb wrote:
(quoted from post at 16:08:18 08/07/17) its not just a question of "leagle" i use straps on my light tractors too, [ below 3500 lbs] but never on the heavies, it may be leagle, but the question for me is if i have some joker pull out in front of me, or get in a accident, do i really want a big heavy tractor possibly breaking loose and installing itself in the back of my truck? big tractor use chains and binders


Eric, the manufacturers of the straps have to make them to stand up to their rated load just as the manufacturers of chains do. If a joker pulls out in front of you and your chains are too light they will fail just the same as a strap that is too light will fail. The person chaining them down is responsible for the condition of his straps just as he is for his chains. It is not the material that the load restraint is made of it is how they are made. and what tests and ratings they meet. My loads are far safer with 20,000 lb straps than with 10,000 lb chains.
 
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kcm.MN
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:37 pm    Post subject: Re: is it even legal? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

showcrop wrote:
(quoted from post at 06:05:26 08/05/17)
kcm.MN wrote:
(quoted from post at 01:16:53 08/04/17) I always strap/chain things down as though I expect to be in an accident. Reason being, if my load comes loose under the additional G-forces of an accident, I don't want my load killing someone else. If in an accident, there will be a brief moment where that 5,000 lb. tractor could weigh much, much more.


KCM, you are actually doing the minimum. Holding in an overturn or a major front end impact is what the regs are based on.


*hehe* You haven't seen how many chains and straps I use!

A couple years back, we were hauling a mis-matched load of building materials, ladders, tools, hot tub, and my Pasquali tractor down to Arkansas. Got over 1,000 miles and then ended up on this long downhill run. Traffic was fairly heavy (right before Christmas) and it was dark, and what few exits there were were cram packed with traffic. On a long downhill run, a small red car cut in front of us and I slammed on the brakes. Didn't realize it at the time, but the new brake controller was the wrong type, which only added to the troubles. Anyway, ended up losing electric brakes and had to jackknife the trailer into our truck to stop. Hardly any of the load moved at all! Even the little tractor was still right there, right where I put it - only a bit flattened, as the trailer had rolled over itself during all the madness. Pretty much ruined every chain and strap I had, but the load was amazingly intact!

Before I married my somewhat-paranoid wife, I would only do the minimum. Now, I go overboard - and now I know why! Shocked Spent about 2 weeks solid just tying down that load!
 
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D beatty
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 10:05 pm    Post subject: Re: is it even legal? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Where do you get a 4" ratchet strap that is rated at 20,000 lbs.? The best 4" ratchet strap that US Cargo Control has the same WLL rating
as a 3/8" grade 70 chain.
 
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showcrop
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 3:59 am    Post subject: Re: is it even legal? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CVPost-D beatty wrote:
(quoted from post at 23:05:21 08/07/17) Where do you get a 4" ratchet strap that is rated at 20,000 lbs.? The best 4" ratchet strap that US Cargo Control has the same WLL rating
as a 3/8" grade 70 chain.


Lodi Metals Belleville Ohio. has 24,000 lb. rating. The whole point here is that we should not be trying to convince newbies that chain is good, straps bad. The wise informed transporter knows his equipment AND the laws and uses properly rated and applied restraints. The Newbie who, instead of consulting the correct authority, finds a forum to ask his question, and is told repeatedly "use chains, not straps and you will be OK" is headed for a headache.
 
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D beatty
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:03 am    Post subject: Re: is it even legal? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

i went to Lodi Metals site and their best 4" ratchet strap has a WLL rating of 5,670 # . A 3/8 Grade 70 chain has a WLL rating of
6,600# . When you are buy chains or straps you go by the WLL rating. WLL (work load limit]. Dot goes by Wll rating not the BS rating.
 
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Leroy
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:56 am    Post subject: Re: is it even legal? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I think some depends on state, some yes others no.
 
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kcm.MN
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:37 pm    Post subject: Re: is it even legal? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

As mentioned previously, the accident I was in resulted in the trailer fishtailing wildly for quite some time (lots of G-forces!), plus that the trailer rolled over and then righted itself before jackknifing into the tow vehicle. In the process of rolling over, the trailer tongue twisted and the trailer hitch came completely off the trailer and was still hanging from the tow vehicle.

Again, this little tractor (only 1,500 est.) stayed exactly where I had planted it on the load. Any straps that went over the top were long-gone, but the worst of the chains only wore through half their thickness. So no matter what ANYONE tells me, I know that in any situation where rubbing or friction-skidding is concerned, steel will ALWAYS win out over fabric.

Most every strap I had on that load was completely scrapped, yet only one chain needed to be replaced, and actually hasn't yet been as I just used it to help tie down a Gehl 4625 SX skid loader. And no, wasn't using this in any sort of primary holding capacity!! I just haven't replaced much of those straps yet. Besides, I can get a lot more UMPH! from load binders and a cheater bar than I can from a small ratchet. ...And for those of you who say load binders should be outlawed (and ARE in some states!), the reason is the ability of the handle to pop open, loosening the load. Here's a pic I took of how I remove that problem. Most people will say to simply wrap the excess chain around the handle, but sometimes there's not enough chain to keep me comfortable. In this case there was ample chain, but I still chose to use multiple wraps of heavier baling twine, THEN wrapping the excess chain.


 
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PretendFarmer
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:06 am    Post subject: Re: is it even legal? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I currently use chains and binders but I would use properly rated straps.
 
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grizz02
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:23 pm    Post subject: Re: is it even legal? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

if a trailer starts to fish tail hit the gas not the brakes once it settles down then your can start breaking also if you have trailer breaks if you don't panic and reach down and manually apply trailer breaks with slight throttle it will pull it self straight most people panic dive on the breaks swing the wheel left to right and wonder why there on there top commercial driver 35years no accidents 3 million miles I know what i.m talking about but tou right about chains on heavy loads
 
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D beatty
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 5:25 am    Post subject: Re: is it even legal? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The handle on my binders is designed a little different than yours and I put a bolt through handle and link of chain. I than wrap rest of
chain around complete binder.
 
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Alan K
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 6:12 am    Post subject: Re: is it even legal? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

My dad always said: "You are responsible for securing your load." I always
figured if it came loose and came off, it wasnt secure and that was on me.
 
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