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how new should I go?

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Hobo,NC
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 5:37 pm    Post subject: Re: how new should I go? Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Probably the hardest work its ever done was mow grass. Its loader ready for that day when a loader is needed... My guess $18K new not a bad deal at all...
 
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Ultradog MN
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:58 am    Post subject: Re: how new should I go? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I posted a link to this the other day.
I still say it is worth looking at.
For a guy moving up from an N this would be a dream come true.
This tractor would have live hyds, 8 speed trans, lpto, ps and differential lock. These 3 cylinder diesels have proven reliability and are very fuel efficient. These have draft control, position control and draft WITH position control. Many newer tractors don't have draft control or it is an expensive option.
8+ gpm hyd pump with oil cooler and hyd filter. Easy to add remote hydraulics to.
They are rated 38 hp at the pto which is more like 50 hp at the flywheel - the way tractors are rated today.
Seller says it has low hours. Who knows...
Looks like it has Rops and a second set of tires.
They still have very good dealer support.
Parts are readily available and not as expensive as other brands.
It's not so pretty but rjm528n says that's not so important.
The price is reasonable.
Best of all it is a nice old Ford and would be rather familiar to a guy who has an N, Jube or Hundred.
And the Ford board here at YT is outstanding.
I have no affiliation with this tractor or the seller.
Ford 3600

 
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lastcowboy32
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:14 am    Post subject: Re: how new should I go? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

If I had the money, I'd have a brand-spankin' new tractor myself.

But I see a lot of what UltraDog is saying. I have three tractors, a 2N that I rebuilt myself. A 3000 that I bought for 2700 bucks, put an aftermarket single remote (full single) on it for 300 bucks; and I spent about a hundred bucks to completely re-do the ignition system. I also have the use of a newer compact diesel that my brother lets me use.

On paper, the compact diesel is 28hp and four wheel drive. My 2N is 21 horsepower and two wheel drive.

Under field conditions, when it comes to traction; my 2N would pull the little diesel over backwards. It has more horsepower, but no working weight, crummy turf tires. Sure it has four wheel drive, but that just means that it makes ruts with the front and rear equally.

By the way, before I got the 3000. I was using the diesel to run a haybine and a baler. Guess what, it had enough power to do it, but the engine is LIGHT. It's not built for work like that, it needed a complete rebuild. I compare the small engines in some of these newer compact diesels to cheap welders...sure they got lots of power, but you can only use that power at a certain duty cycle. Just not enough mass there to take the heat.

When the diesel went down last year, I didn't have the 3000 yet. I have a friend whose field I bale. He had a brand spankin' new Kubota four wheel drive. 40 horsepower. I asked if I could rent it for a weekend to do hay. To my surprise, he said sure. 175 bucks a day.

I went over on Friday morning to get it to hook it up to the haybine. No remote hydraulics. No DRAWBAR! It had a three point hitch...and that's it. It's not built for farm work. You would need to spend some dough on top of the thousands you paid for it to get it set up for that.

A couple weeks later, I had the 3000, and I've been running the haybine and baler with it with no issues. I draw wagons , tedd and rake with the 2N.... total cost for the two of them? $3100 for the 3000...the 2N I bought for $1000 a couple of years ago and spent about $600 plus my time on an in-frame rebuild of the engine (at this point...the 2N starts better and runs smoother than the diesel, my 3000 and my neighbor's Kubota)

Kubotas and modern diesels are meant for industrial, landscaping and horse customers. In my humble opinion, when it comes to actual farm work, where you're running an implement that needs working weight to control and continuous power for hours on end (for example, a haybine in heavy forage)...dollar for dollar I would go with a tractor from about 1965 to 1985.

If cost was no object, then I would consider something newer and nicer.

Just a humble opinion.
 
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TheOldHokie
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:23 pm    Post subject: Re: how new should I go? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

lastcowboy32 wrote:
(quoted from post at 12:14:10 08/11/17) If I had the money, I'd have a brand-spankin' new tractor myself.

But I see a lot of what UltraDog is saying. I have three tractors, a 2N that I rebuilt myself. A 3000 that I bought for 2700 bucks, put an aftermarket single remote (full single) on it for 300 bucks; and I spent about a hundred bucks to completely re-do the ignition system. I also have the use of a newer compact diesel that my brother lets me use.

On paper, the compact diesel is 28hp and four wheel drive. My 2N is 21 horsepower and two wheel drive.

Under field conditions, when it comes to traction; my 2N would pull the little diesel over backwards. It has more horsepower, but no working weight, crummy turf tires. Sure it has four wheel drive, but that just means that it makes ruts with the front and rear equally.

By the way, before I got the 3000. I was using the diesel to run a haybine and a baler. Guess what, it had enough power to do it, but the engine is LIGHT. It's not built for work like that, it needed a complete rebuild. I compare the small engines in some of these newer compact diesels to cheap welders...sure they got lots of power, but you can only use that power at a certain duty cycle. Just not enough mass there to take the heat.

When the diesel went down last year, I didn't have the 3000 yet. I have a friend whose field I bale. He had a brand spankin' new Kubota four wheel drive. 40 horsepower. I asked if I could rent it for a weekend to do hay. To my surprise, he said sure. 175 bucks a day.

I went over on Friday morning to get it to hook it up to the haybine. No remote hydraulics. No DRAWBAR! It had a three point hitch...and that's it. It's not built for farm work. You would need to spend some dough on top of the thousands you paid for it to get it set up for that.

A couple weeks later, I had the 3000, and I've been running the haybine and baler with it with no issues. I draw wagons , tedd and rake with the 2N.... total cost for the two of them? $3100 for the 3000...the 2N I bought for $1000 a couple of years ago and spent about $600 plus my time on an in-frame rebuild of the engine (at this point...the 2N starts better and runs smoother than the diesel, my 3000 and my neighbor's Kubota)

Kubotas and modern diesels are meant for industrial, landscaping and horse customers. In my humble opinion, when it comes to actual farm work, where you're running an implement that needs working weight to control and continuous power for hours on end (for example, a haybine in heavy forage)...dollar for dollar I would go with a tractor from about 1965 to 1985.

If cost was no object, then I would consider something newer and nicer.

Just a humble opinion.


Yes - there are cheaper older machines that are better suited to some very specific tasks like plowing than many modern small utility tractors. But Kubota (and similar companies) make a wide range of machines. Even my ancient B7200 has a provision for a drawbar so I don't know what Kubota you were looking at and wore out.

As for principally agricultural machines perhaps you are not familiar with the "mid-size" M-series Kubotas which are most definitely good selling "small" agricultural machines. They are not cheap and not for the low budget farmer. Dollar for dollar the people that really need such a machine to be up and running day in and day out are choosing something other than 30 year old Ford tractors. I don't think you would want to pit your old Fords in a pulling contest with this Kubota or simialr machines for a host of competitors:

Kubota M Series

Kubota does not compete against REAL modern agricultural machines which are much larger and much more expensive and even the smaller ones would eat them and any Ford tractor ever made:



Pick your machine based on your needs and budget. They did not quit making good agricultural tractors when Ford went out of business. There are plenty of new machines to chose from and the REAL farmers in this world are using them because they are cost effective. Hobby farmers may not be able to afford or justify them but that does not make them any less utilitarian.

TOH
 
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Hobo,NC
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:33 pm    Post subject: Re: how new should I go? Reply to specific post Reply with quote


I have a 3000 nice machine BUY you could easily end up with well over 6/7K in it and still have a $3000 tractor... A N about the same but it will be a $2000 tractor... I have a bota but want a bigger one It does zackly what I brought it for NO 3000 are N could out work the jobs I have put it thru you can bank on DAT.... That being said Its not a plowing tractor but that all it lacks in... I gave up sum'N with HST if I would have got a gear drive then we would have a plow'N machine but not efficient for the other taste I needed that the Fords lacked in that money could not BUY...

Draw bar my bota came with one don't need it... Remotes I got'em front back and side ways... It even has inside plumbing I can take a chit and never leave the seat...When I was a big time gardener You could not pry from my cold dead hands any of the farmalls I have...

Worst case move'N up is the cost of doing business.. Most folks live in a house that cost more than they need, drive cars trucks that cost more they need but fudge at the idea of buying a piece of equipment that will get'er done and you don't have to fudge with it...

I am guilty of every thing but the house I did enjoy the fix'N up of old tractors but never considered it a good investment... The IRS did not either....
 
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Ultradog MN
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 2:18 am    Post subject: Re: how new should I go? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

It's interesting how a question about upgrading to a Jube, Hundred or Thousand has turned into a discussion, advertisement? for Kubotas.
Most people here bought an N in the first place because they are cheap. Then they found they are simple, reliable, fun little tractors with a 3 point hitch and will do a surprising amount of work for you. But if someone here just wants live hydraulics and asks about a bit of an upgrade there's always those same few members here who say buy a $10 to $25+K Kubota or stay home and stick with your N.
And no one ever says to them (paraphrased) "I wonder why you even frequent this board. You don't like Fords very much."
Now don't get me wrong, I do know something about the advantages of new equipment. I've driven new 3/4t pickups every 5 years for a long time because my CPA tells me it is time for a new one.
And I know something about Japanese equipment as my wife likes new Camrys and I know they are great cars. So I dont doubt that Kubotas are great machines. And New is fun too.
But going from a $2500 N to a $25,000 Kubota is beyond the means of many of us here. Partly because this is just a hobby and there are no write-offs for one. And also because you just don't need New to do an occasional bit of gardening, deer plotting, brush hogging or hauling firewood.
So to you guys who want an upgrade but don't want to break the bank, remember that there are plenty of great old Ford tractors that can be had for under $6K.
They won't have HST, FWA or drink holders but they will have a lot more features than an N and do a heck of a lot of work for you - for 1/5 the cost of a Kubota.
 
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TheOldHokie
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:45 am    Post subject: Re: how new should I go? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CVPost-Ultradog MN wrote:
(quoted from post at 06:18:55 08/12/17) It's interesting how a question about upgrading to a Jube, Hundred or Thousand has turned into a discussion, advertisement? for Kubotas.
Most people here bought an N in the first place because they are cheap. Then they found they are simple, reliable, fun little tractors with a 3 point hitch and will do a surprising amount of work for you. But if someone here just wants live hydraulics and asks about a bit of an upgrade there's always those same few members here who say buy a $10 to $25+K Kubota or stay home and stick with your N.
And no one ever says to them (paraphrased) "I wonder why you even frequent this board. You don't like Fords very much."
Now don't get me wrong, I do know something about the advantages of new equipment. I've driven new 3/4t pickups every 5 years for a long time because my CPA tells me it is time for a new one.
And I know something about Japanese equipment as my wife likes new Camrys and I know they are great cars. So I dont doubt that Kubotas are great machines. And New is fun too.
But going from a $2500 N to a $25,000 Kubota is beyond the means of many of us here. Partly because this is just a hobby and there are no write-offs for one. And also because you just don't need New to do an occasional bit of gardening, deer plotting, brush hogging or hauling firewood.
So to you guys who want an upgrade but don't want to break the bank, remember that there are plenty of great old Ford tractors that can be had for under $6K.
They won't have HST, FWA or drink holders but they will have a lot more features than an N and do a heck of a lot of work for you - for 1/5 the cost of a Kubota.


The thread has digressed into a discussion of the [b]capabilities[/b] of newer versus older utility tractors and a lot that has been said about the capabilities and price of newer machines is simply wrong. That is what prompted my responses. I have nothing against old Fords and own two N-series. I recognize their limitations just like I recognize the limitations of my two Kubotas.

I am not selling Kubota althgiugh they are my brand of choice. It just seems Kubota is your preferred whipping boy and I am trying to keep the record straight on what the tradeoffs actually are and where the price points really lay. When someone asks "how new" I am going to offer my opinion and some market examples to back them up just like you offered yours. We have divergent opinions and while this is an old Ford forum I would hope differing opinions are welcome here. It's a way to get something less than a tunnel vision view of the issues.

This board is more diverse than you think and MANY of it's participants are more than able to afford a NEW $25,000 or even $50,000 tractor. Some already own more than one and for them spending more for a newer tractor is a reasonable choice. There is a whole population of people that need/want a tractor but don't want and can't deal with the issues of maintaining a 40 year old machine. They also want the comfort and features found on newer machines and for them it is worth the added cost.

Those on more restricted budgets can shop the used market and spend a lot less. The choice is not limited to a new $35,000 Kubota or a $6000 40 year old Ford. There is a diverse lineup of fine late model used machines from Case, Deere, IH,Massey Ferguson, Kubota, Mahindra, and more. You can find machines that compete quite favorably on both price and performance with the older Fords. All you have to do is look.

TOH
 
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Ultradog MN
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 5:41 am    Post subject: Re: how new should I go? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

" It just seems Kubota is your
preferred whipping boy"


There have been scores, maybe a hundred
threads here where you have extolled the
virtues of your kubotas.
Nothing wrong with a man being happy with
his purchase and recommending one to
others.
But can you show me any, even one, where I
have spoken ill of them in any way?
I doubt you can.
Yes, this board is or should be, a big
tent where diverse opinions are allowed.
But is suggesting a new kubota to a guy
that asks about a jube,100 or 1000 apt or
appropriate to his query? Maybe it is to
you. But from here it looks like just
another occasion where you to promote your
own favorite but wholly unrelated tractor
- brand wise,era wise and price wise.
 
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TheOldHokie
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 1:29 pm    Post subject: Re: how new should I go? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CVPost-Ultradog MN wrote:
(quoted from post at 09:41:22 08/12/17) " It just seems Kubota is your
preferred whipping boy"


There have been scores, maybe a hundred
threads here where you have extolled the
virtues of your kubotas.
Nothing wrong with a man being happy with
his purchase and recommending one to
others.
But can you show me any, even one, where I
have spoken ill of them in any way?
I doubt you can.
Yes, this board is or should be, a big
tent where diverse opinions are allowed.
But is suggesting a new kubota to a guy
that asks about a jube,100 or 1000 apt or
appropriate to his query? Maybe it is to
you. But from here it looks like just
another occasion where you to promote your
own favorite but wholly unrelated tractor
- brand wise,era wise and price wise.

Not even close to a hundred posts - probably less than 20 and usually in response to your evangelical pitch of the Ford thousand series. Look back through this thread. The first mention of Kubota was in your initial response where you provided what I consider to be a very inaccurate and one-sided comparison of your dearly beloved 40 year old blue tractors with my dearly beloved orange tractors. Prior to that I had spoken in generalities. You regularly point out the inadequacies of the older Fords (9N, 2N, 8N, NAA and Hundred series) in comparison to the later thousand series and consistently advise that it is better to spend a few thousand dollars more for a newer and more featured Ford 3xxx/4xxx than for a cheaper and less featured N-series. I totally agree. All I am doing is offering that same advice with regard to the your thousand series. There are tens of thousands of newer and better tractors available for just a few thousand dollars more than the cost of a 40 year old tractor. It doesn't have to be a Kubota - there are a dozon OEM's including Ford that have produced better, more featured, and user friendly machines that will have seen far less use and abuse.

My advice to anyone that cares is real simple. Buy the newest and most featured tractor you can reasonably afford regardless of color. Press your budget to the limit else you will be back in he market sooner rather than later. Get knowledgeable and comparison shop everything before you buy. Try to eliminate the brand zealots from the pragmatists. A lot has happened in the last half century and there is no one best color.

I think that is essentially what JMOR said early on.....

TOH
 
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Hobo,NC
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 5:00 pm    Post subject: Re: how new should I go? Reply to specific post Reply with quote


When you need another write off tell yer CPA you are gonna keep you 5 year old truck and buy a Bota they write off the same... Cool Mine is a expensive fork lift but its the one I wanted...


 
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JMOR
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 6:23 pm    Post subject: Re: how new should I go? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

"Try to eliminate the brand zealots from the pragmatists."
Good advice! Some people think that what they have (a result of their "excellent" decision making) is what everyone else should have.....just the way some people are. I have 2 Fords, a MF, an IH & a fork lift with a VW engine. They all do what each does best & as long as they work, I love all of them....otherwise I cuss it! It is really nice for old men to have enough tractors to not have to expend what little energy we have left in changing implements. Get along folks.....no one needs to press his preference on everyone else. Just because this is a Ford forum, everyone need not be blue.
 
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Ultradog MN
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:54 am    Post subject: Re: how new should I go? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Fellas,
I don't have anything against Kubotas.
And I challenge anyone here to find even one post where I have spoken ill of them. Cause I have not. Ever!
As lastcowboy said, I used Kubota in this thread as an example of of a generic modern tractor and even then I included NH and JD in that post.
I couldn't help but notice that those of you with Kubotas sure came to their defense in a hurry though - in spite of all the fine talk about not being a brand zealot, wink.
I also agree with the statement about buying as much tractor as you can afford, and then a little more. All of you know that I have said many times here that it makes no sense to me to spend $1K on an N and then spend another $4K restoring it. Far better to spend $5K up front and get a newer tractor to begin with.
On the other hand, suggesting to a guy who wants to upgrade from a $2500 N that he go out and spend $25+K on a new MF (Notice I didn't say Kubota here - don't want any more pants wetting) is ludicrous and smacks of bragging.
I shouldn't need to tell you that many if not most people here have an occasional need for a tractor but they sure don't need THAT much tractor.
My contention all along in this thread was the OP wanted an upgrade from a tired old N to a newer FORD and he even suggested some specific models, all of which can be had for $5K or less.
Toh, you state that I frequently tout the virtues of my 3000 here. You are probably correct in that and maybe I do it too often. But I will again remind you of two things. This IS an antique tractor forum dedicated to old Fords. And my 3000 IS a $5K tractor which has a lot more features than an N.
So when I see folks going whole hog on an N restoration I remind them that they could have my tractor for the same money.
That is much different than you guys suggesting they buy a new tractor and in my opinion your suggestion would be more appropriate on a board like tractorbynet where they wrangle over $50K MFs vs $48K JDs or or NHs.
As for me, I probably will never own a new tractor.
I'm one of those occasional use types and wound rather spend my dough on other things.
And I am partial to these old Fords. All of them, from 39-99 and don't mind being called a zealot about the brand.
 
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