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Air cleaner related starting issues

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Psucivil
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:01 pm    Post subject: Air cleaner related starting issues Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I recently joined the 8N club and purchased a 1951 side mount that was converted to 12 volt by the previous owner. Not knowing it's history I have been slowly going over it. So far I have changed the oil and filter, plugs and wires, cleaned the fuel bowl and added a new screen and gasket I have also installed a new starter bendix as it wasn't engatthe flywheel reliably. My next item to go over was the air cleaner. I could not for the life of me get the oil cup off of the cleaner body and was beating and prying on it to the point where I was damaging it so I removed it.

I ran the tractor in the garage without the cleaner but I stuck a new rag with a hose clamp over the air tube to prevent dirt and dust from getting into the carb while I waited for a new air cleaner to arrive. Inordered one off of YT and it arrived today. I promptly installed it and added oil to the line in the cup and now the tractor will not start.

So far I have checked the following, fuel flows freely with the carb plug removed, using a plug tester I have spark at each cylinder so this is making me believe it's an air related issue. I have a carb rebuild parts kit butnhave not tore into the carb yet. Does anyone have any input or experienced anything like this before?

Thanks!
 
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Bruce (VA)
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Air cleaner related starting issues Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Disconnect the air filter and see what
happens.
 
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Psucivil
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Air cleaner related starting issues Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Before installing the air cleaner I looked inside it and didn't see any packing plugs that needed to be removed prior to installation. I will separate the air tube tomorrow night and see what happens.

I don't think the previous owner did much maintenance to it so it might have run without oil in the old cleaner for quite some time. I wasn't sure if I would have to adjust the idle air mixture screw ornthe carb in general due to the new cleaner
 
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Psucivil
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Air cleaner related starting issues Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Before installing the air cleaner I looked inside it and didn't see any packing plugs that needed to be removed prior to installation. I will separate the air tube tomorrow night and see what happens.

I don't think the previous owner did much maintenance to it so it might have run without oil in the old cleaner for quite some time. I wasn't sure if I would have to adjust the idle air mixture screw ornthe carb in general due to the new cleaner
 
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nashranch
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Air cleaner related starting issues Reply to specific post Reply with quote


I just sold a 1951 Ford 8N Tractor to a guy in Redmond, Oregon. The no oil in the bottom of the air filter rings a bell for some odd reason. Hopefully yer not the guy. If you are sorry bout that and shame on me. I will be sending the guy I sold it too a text message to remind him to check that out
 
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Psucivil
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Air cleaner related starting issues Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Haha I'm betting it's a different tractor as I'm in Pennsylvania
 
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nashranch
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Air cleaner related starting issues Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Psucivil wrote:
(quoted from post at 18:55:27 12/06/17)
Haha I'm betting it's a different tractor as I'm in Pennsylvania


Did yours look as good as this?
 
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TomT
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Air cleaner related starting issues Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Hey, nashranch, That`s one good looking tractor!!
 
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Colin King
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Air cleaner related starting issues Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The simple answer is yes. Crud can build up, restricting air flow. I've also seen accumulated water in the oil bath that freezes, which will restrict air flow.

Colin, MN
 
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nashranch
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Air cleaner related starting issues Reply to specific post Reply with quote

TomT wrote:
(quoted from post at 20:41:47 12/06/17) Hey, nashranch, That`s one good looking tractor!!


Thank you Mr T... it was a fun resto and it Sold quickly
 
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Dollar Bill
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:36 am    Post subject: Re: Air cleaner related starting issues Reply to specific post Reply with quote

See if you can breathe (blow) through the new air filter. There should be no resistance to air flow if the air filter is working properly.
 
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Tim PloughNman Daley
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:48 am    Post subject: Re: Air cleaner related starting issues Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The 8N air cleaner has two fine mesh steel screens rolled up inside to trap debris. You need to remove the unit to clean them and the unit properly. The cup mounts up into a groove around the periphery of the base with a cork gasket fitted into it. The cup is secured to the base unit via two toggle clamps 180? apart. If by unclamping them doesn't allow the cup to be removed, it may be dry rotted to the cork from lack of being removed for 50 years or so. Gentle tapping with a soft mallet, rubber or plastic, after spraying some PB BLASTER or Liquid Wrench or Mineral Spirits around the lip might do it. Might even just drop the whole unit in a can of kerosene or diesel fuel or UATF or even gas to try and loosen up the cork seal. Just adding enough to ensure the cup is submerged would be sufficient. Let soak for a few hours minimum. Smacking and prying aren't the answer -just hackmaster technology.

If you have fuel flow and good spark I suspect the root cause is not related to air flow -look elsewhere like wiring. Got EI added? Got your MPC handy? verify plug wires are correct -1,2,4,3 is the correct rotation.

Tim Daley(MI)
 
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Psucivil
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:13 am    Post subject: Re: Air cleaner related starting issues Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CVPost-Tim PloughNman Dal wrote:
(quoted from post at 02:48:18 12/07/17) The 8N air cleaner has two fine mesh steel screens rolled up inside to trap debris. You need to remove the unit to clean them and the unit properly. The cup mounts up into a groove around the periphery of the base with a cork gasket fitted into it. The cup is secured to the base unit via two toggle clamps 180? apart. If by unclamping them doesn't allow the cup to be removed, it may be dry rotted to the cork from lack of being removed for 50 years or so. Gentle tapping with a soft mallet, rubber or plastic, after spraying some PB BLASTER or Liquid Wrench or Mineral Spirits around the lip might do it. Might even just drop the whole unit in a can of kerosene or diesel fuel or UATF or even gas to try and loosen up the cork seal. Just adding enough to ensure the cup is submerged would be sufficient. Let soak for a few hours minimum. Smacking and prying aren't the answer -just hackmaster technology.

If you have fuel flow and good spark I suspect the root cause is not related to air flow -look elsewhere like wiring. Got EI added? Got your MPC handy? verify plug wires are correct -1,2,4,3 is the correct rotation.

Tim Daley(MI)


So I removed the air cleaner and the tractor still won't start. I'm beginning to think that I have a weak spark as I pulled the plugs and they have gasoline on them. With new plug wires and ample charge on the battery I am looking at the coil and distributor. As I mentioned it was converted to 12volts but I am not sure if it has been converted to Electronic ignition or not. Is there an easy way to tell without pulling the distributor apart? Also what is the best way to troubleshoot the coil? And lastly in looking over the electrical system I noticed that the resistor above the tool box is in pretty rough shape and the wire terminals coming out of it are loose
 
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nashranch
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:22 am    Post subject: Re: Air cleaner related starting issues Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Psucivil wrote:
(quoted from post at 12:13:13 12/07/17)
CVPost-Tim PloughNman Dal wrote:
(quoted from post at 02:48:18 12/07/17) The 8N air cleaner has two fine mesh steel screens rolled up inside to trap debris. You need to remove the unit to clean them and the unit properly. The cup mounts up into a groove around the periphery of the base with a cork gasket fitted into it. The cup is secured to the base unit via two toggle clamps 180? apart. If by unclamping them doesn't allow the cup to be removed, it may be dry rotted to the cork from lack of being removed for 50 years or so. Gentle tapping with a soft mallet, rubber or plastic, after spraying some PB BLASTER or Liquid Wrench or Mineral Spirits around the lip might do it. Might even just drop the whole unit in a can of kerosene or diesel fuel or UATF or even gas to try and loosen up the cork seal. Just adding enough to ensure the cup is submerged would be sufficient. Let soak for a few hours minimum. Smacking and prying aren't the answer -just hackmaster technology.

If you have fuel flow and good spark I suspect the root cause is not related to air flow -look elsewhere like wiring. Got EI added? Got your MPC handy? verify plug wires are correct -1,2,4,3 is the correct rotation.

Tim Daley(MI)


So I removed the air cleaner and the tractor still won't start. I'm beginning to think that I have a weak spark as I pulled the plugs and they have gasoline on them. With new plug wires and ample charge on the battery I am looking at the coil and distributor. As I mentioned it was converted to 12volts but I am not sure if it has been converted to Electronic ignition or not. Is there an easy way to tell without pulling the distributor apart? Also what is the best way to troubleshoot the coil? And lastly in looking over the electrical system I noticed that the resistor above the tool box is in pretty rough shape and the wire terminals coming out of it are loose


Yep that's yer problem.. bypass that resistor and I bet it runs
 
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Bruce (VA)
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:49 am    Post subject: Re: Air cleaner related starting issues Reply to specific post Reply with quote

" I have a weak spark as I pulled the plugs and they have gasoline on them."

That's two separate problems.

Replace the plugs. You flooded it, they're fouled & it will be it next to impossible to start. You don't need to toss them; heat the tips for a few seconds w/ a propane torch to burn off the invisible spark-robbing deposits from today's additive filled gasoline........or wash them in brake cleaner.

Next, get out your adjustable gap spark checker * , open the gap to 1/4", hook it up, turn the key on and crank the engine. Does the spark jump 1/4"? Post back with the answers.

" I am not sure if it has been converted to Electronic ignition "

Remove the distributor cap and look inside. Points or EI module?

" I noticed that the resistor above the tool box is in pretty rough shape and the wire terminals coming out of it are loose "

Resistor? Remove it. Hook the two wires together for the moment. Once the tractor is running, replace the coil with a true 12v coil, NAPA part number IC14SB. (see tip # 30)

" Also what is the best way to troubleshoot the coil?"

You need to get that resistor out of the circuit before you think about that. And besides, you don't have a coil problem anyway.

And do not buy a new part for the tractor until you can answer this question: how do I know the part on the tractor is defective?

Lastly..........see tip # 30. You really do need a set of manuals.

* Don't own an adjustable gap spark checker? Buy one! Not a test light! Until then, take an old plug, open the gap 1/4" ground it to the head & look for spark. It?s not the color of the spark that counts; it?s the distance it jumps.
75 Tips

 
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