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Ford Model 1821 Industrial Backhoe Hydraulic hoses


 
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Ivan8ias
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:32 am    Post subject: Ford Model 1821 Industrial Backhoe Hydraulic hoses Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I have an old Ford Industrial Model 1821 backhoe that I need new hoses and hydraulic fittings for. I have tried the local hydraulic shops, but they don't have such old fittings like the ones that I need. Can you recommend where I might find either the entire hose assemblies or just the fittings, which my local hydraulic shop can install here in New Jersey?

Thank you,

Ivan









 
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Andy Wickiser
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 1:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Ford Model 1821 Industrial Backhoe Hydraulic hoses Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Well you have to improvise and there are multiple methods. The
fittings are called O-Ring Port by Weatherhead and Discount Hydraulic
Hose, commonly known as bump tube. They were used mostly for
automotive air conditioning, power steering, various truck usage, and
industrial usage. The size Ford used is #10, 7/8"-14 Threads per
Inch. However if you can find current 7/8 crimp fittings they are
usually 18 TPI and typically aluminum not steel (for air
conditioning). Discount Hydraulic Hose has adapters to JIC, see link.
I've used and seen various methods including adapters, standard
fittings brazed to the tubing part of the old fitting, new crush
collars on the old fittings, and new #10 crimp-on ORB-SAE fittings.
#10 O-Ring Boss fittings are 7/8"-14 straight thread like the
originals so they fit, but I use thread tape and sealant plus the
outer O-ring to make the seal instead of the original inner O-ring
seal method. If interested I can post pictures.
Discount Hydraulic Hose adapters

 
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Ivan8ias
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Ford Model 1821 Industrial Backhoe Hydraulic hoses Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Andy,

Thank you so much for your detailed and highly informative reply. I live in central New Jersey and all of the local hydraulic hose repair shops were stumped. One place said that they could remove the old fittings and custom weld them to make new fittings, $350 for two hoses. Your reply has given me an alternative. I will have to digest all your information and I would like to get back to you.

I got this backhoe used over twenty years ago and then it was in bad shape. All the hoses were makeshift rigged in all kinds of ways. These two hoses that burst are from the bottom of the main boom to the control housing. One hose has the straight fittings on both ends, and the other has the angle fitting on one end and a straight fitting on the other. They are both about 3 feet long or so.

I haven't used the tractor for over five years, when the hose on the top of the boom connecting to the other boom, burst. I am very mechanically inclined, but there was no way I could figure how to reach into the boom to get access to the fittings, which by the way, were so badly rusted away that there weren't even sides on the fitting for a wrench. I still don't know how to improvise a home made solution to maybe route a line alongside the lower boom. Anyway, that's why I stopped using it on the farm. I tried starting it last year, but no gas went to the carburetor and it was winter and the fuel shutoff was leaking profusely, so I gave up. I recently decided to work on the beast and took the Marvel Schiebler carburetor off and rebuilt it.The wild rosebushes took over and I had to clear the whole area to work on it. The inside was green with corrosion. I carefully cleaned the float and hinge assembly, which was stuck in the shut position. I cleaned it all up and it works fine. I also, with great access difficulty, replaced the gas tank shutoff. Then, since the 12 volt generator I had rebuilt several times years ago, wasn't working I decided to do an alternator conversion. While I was at it, I also wired taillights/flasher lights on the fenders for when I use it to clear the 600' driveway of snow at the highway entrance for traffic safety. I figured that I would just not use the backhoe part, until when I just started it to move it, the two lower hoses burst, and I am forced to repair them. So that's where I am now. Smile

I also have a Ford 901 tractor that I use for brush cutting in the pastures. I just noticed the other day that one of the rear tires went flat! These tires are liquid filled with calcium chloride that severely rusted the rims. I figure I will take them off next spring and replace them with new tires, tubes and rims. The best price I can get is about $1,250 for the both mounted on the rims. Sorry to keep rambling on, but I just wanted you to know where I am.Smile

Thank you again,

Ivan
 
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Andy Wickiser
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Ford Model 1821 Industrial Backhoe Hydraulic hoses Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Ivan:

I just reworked my lower boom hoses. First picture shows reusing old
fittings using crimp collars, second picture shows using an SAE/ORB
#10 fitting to go directly into the main boom cylinder (I also removed
and rebuilt the cylinder). Unfortunately I still have a seeping leak
on one of the crimp collars, method not ideal, but I'll find a way to
deal with it.



 
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Ivan8ias
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Ford Model 1821 Industrial Backhoe Hydraulic hoses Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Andy,
Are you saying that if I use the adapter in the link, (41157-10-10 | 5/8" JIC Male x 7/8-14 Ford O-Ring Port Male) , that I could buy four of these and then get readily locally available hoses with fittings to mate with the 5/8" JIC male end? Does this sound like a good idea? Hydraulics repair is new to me, and this would be a new experience, so please excuse my ignorance. Smile

Ivan
 
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Andy Wickiser
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 5:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Ford Model 1821 Industrial Backhoe Hydraulic hoses Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Yes, the adapters allow the use of standard JIC hoses. However the
adapters add length so you have to be careful about causing mechanical
interference, especially with the bottom boom hoses. Full swing might
mash the hoses (that's why the original fittings are angled). The
other bad thing is that the adapters are kind of expensive, about $15
each.
 
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Ivan8ias
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 6:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Ford Model 1821 Industrial Backhoe Hydraulic hoses Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Andy,

Just to be sure, the Ford end would definitely fit the tractor / boom? What would I ask my hose shop to mate with the other end by name? How much longer, in your estimation, would the adapter make the fitting connection be? There will be no clearance problems to the boom that I can foresee, but I have to check tomorrow in the daylight about where the angled fitting connects to the tractor controls. I don't know if you can make it out in the attached pictures. Specifically, the ones marked with the red tape is the angled fitting. It was hard to get a closer picture of the angled fitting. $15 for each adapter is quite affordable, considering the $350 alternative. I don't know how much they would typically charge to make two 3' hoses with the more commonly available JIC mating fittings. Would they be 1/2" or 5/8" hoses?

Thank you,

Ivan













 
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Andy Wickiser
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Ford Model 1821 Industrial Backhoe Hydraulic hoses Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The adapters should work at those locations. JIC 10 female swivels
are available for 1/2" hose. If you don't want to spend a lot on the
hoses Surplus Center has premade lengths with JIC 10 female swivels
and 1/2" hose, 36" for about $16.95 2016 catalog price. The angled
fittings and clearance problems I was talking about are down below as
shown in my picture, not the ones in your picture.
 
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Ivan8ias
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Ford Model 1821 Industrial Backhoe Hydraulic hoses Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Andy,

Thank you so much for your help. It is invaluable to me! The url link you sent me for the adapter is perfect! Can you please give me the url link for the surplus hose place that you mentioned? Exactly what size hose with what fitting size/name should I be asking for? A JIC 10 female, standard thread for that fitting? What do you mean by "swivel"? Since I am in no rush, I might as well get everything online, if they sell angle fittings also. I don't know how to measure the angle, however. Are there standard angles or would mine be a special one? If not, I can always bring my old hose fitting to compare at my local shop. I am sorry for bothering you with all these details, but no one is knowledgeable like you. Smile

Thank you,
Ivan
 
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Andy Wickiser
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Ford Model 1821 Industrial Backhoe Hydraulic hoses Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Below is link to Surplus Center 36" JIC 10 Female swivel 1/2" hose.
Other lengths are available so measure and get what you need. Swivel
means you can install it without turning the entire hose assembly as
you tighten it (as opposed to a hose with rigid ends).
Surplus Center JIC 10F Swivel

 
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Ford Model 1821 Industrial Backhoe Hydraulic hoses Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Andy,

Thank you for the url for the hose assembly. I am sorry that I couldn't get back to you sooner, but I was out cutting firewood and splitting it all day, and then I had to do repairs on one of my trailers. I just came in now.

I will measure the hoses exactly, using a string because they are atrophied in that bent position. I don't know if hose lengths given are from fitting end to fitting end, or where the hose bottoms out in the fitting crimps.

Thank you for all your help. I would be lost without you. I will keep you posted when I get the parts. Smile

Ivan
 
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:45 am    Post subject: Re: Ford Model 1821 Industrial Backhoe Hydraulic hoses Reply to specific post Reply with quote

One additional note. If you want to get everything from one place
Discount Hydraulic Hose makes custom hose assemblies for good prices.
You can specify length, ends, hose type/size on a web form.
 
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Ford Model 1821 Industrial Backhoe Hydraulic hoses Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Andy,

I am working with Blake at www.discounthydraulichose.com to help me make up the hoses as well.

Thank you for pointing me in the right direction. Smile

Ivan
 
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Ford Model 1821 Industrial Backhoe Hydraulic hoses Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Andy,

Just wanted to get back to you as soon as I finished the job. Blake from www.discounthydraulichoses.com set me up with the correct JIC fittings, angle and straight swivel, and custom made hoses, as well as the adapters that you recommended, at a reasonable price. I had to buy a few more wrenches for the job, even though I have quite a few large open end wrenches that I collected over the years for other heavy equipment jobs. The entire job went very well, with no leaks. I first thoroughly cleaned the area around the fittings and then used a 3/4" steel brush on my drill to clean the inside threads and the O ring seat. I put a few drops of oil on the adapters and hand tightened them in, and then tightened them securely. I followed the recommendations for torqueing the dash line #10 JIC fittings. Perfection!

My next job, which is daunting, is to replace the two hoses at the top of the boom. The fittings are recessed in the boom, so I ordered some crowfoot wrenches. Thing is, it looks like a mish-mash of different connector combinations makeshift by the previous owner(s). One side is different from the other, plus the hydraulic tubing line fitting is no longer attached to the boom inner frame, so I will have to figure a way to hold it from twisting the tube when I try to unloosen the stubborn hose fitting. They have been soaking in PB Blaster for weeks. I will let you know when I make some progress.

Thanks to you, I was able to get the right adapters and hoses.

Ivan
 
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