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Is this a MM JT?

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tedellefson
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 12:34 pm    Post subject: Is this a MM JT? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Hello, my father has a Minneapolis Moline Twin Cities tractor, but we are not sure what model it is. I think it might be a 1936 or 1937 JT. I'd appreciate any help I can get. Sorry the photos are not very good, the tractor is currently in "storage"





 
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r aiken
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Is this a MM JT? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Yes it is a JT with a MM replacement engine. I have a 36 JT with a MM replacement engine that in 400 newer than the engine in my 37 MM ZTU
 
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tedellefson
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 4:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Is this a MM JT? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thanks R Aiken, The place in the hood where the air cleaner comes out looked pretty "after market". So I thought it might not be original. What kind of MM replacement engines do they put in these? Would it possibly be from a MM Z?
 
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morepower02
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 4:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Is this a MM JT? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CVPost-tedellefson wrote:
(quoted from post at 19:11:03 12/26/17) Thanks R Aiken, The place in the hood where the air cleaner comes out looked pretty "after market". So I thought it might not be original. What kind of MM replacement engines do they put in these? Would it possibly be from a MM Z?

Yes, it was common to put the Z engine in them.
 
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jr1983
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Is this a MM JT? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Was the original problematic? Why was it a common place to put a z engine in them?
 
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T.R.K.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Is this a MM JT? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

There was a bulletin on how to retrofit a Z (RE) engine into a JT. The transmissions are almost identical except the ZT was about 9 inches longer in the bell housing area.

It looks like whoever put your engine in skipped the part about shimming up the radiator and gas tank. That would probably have put the air cleaner completely under the hood.

I have a JTU with the Waukesha (JE) engine in it.
 
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T.R.K.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Is this a MM JT? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I don't know about problems on the JT engines. (Except that good manifolds are hard to come by.)

The RE engine did have more horsepower and probably ran smoother. Probably newer technology too. (Probably because they had higher compression. I am thinking the JE (Waukesha) engine had the same bore and stroke. Well, the same bore as the RE at least. Maybe a different stroke. But the JE had a ricardo type head with intake valves in the head and exhaust valves in the block. A baseball will almost fit in the combustion chamber, its so big. But then it was designed to burn kerosene.

Mine was built out of junk, so I don't really know what one runs like when in good condition. Mine had a later style Fairbanks Morse magneto on it and a NOS Case carburetor with the original venturi and jets installed in it. It would not idle well at all but would smooth out and sound pretty good at full throttle. I figured at least 2 parts of the problem were that I was running gasoline all the time. The manifold was welded back together and the heat baffle not present in it. And the fixed timing of the magneto was really too early to idle well. If it hadn't been for such low compression it would probably have knocked and dieseled as well.
 
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Kirbsterbbq
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 2:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Is this a MM JT? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I have a late JT, it does have the original Engine and it is a fascinating engine to say the least.

I asked several people why did MM put a third party engine into the first really designed tractor after the merger of 1929. Twin City had a reputation of very robust engines, and the Waukesha is not very robust.

So the answers I did get back from those I asked was the market kinda of dictated the move to a third party engine. Also several tractors of this era also used third party engines, Case, IH and many more.

The best answer I received was since the whole market at the time was to build a row crop tractor aimed for the small farmer one or 2 bottom plow market. Examples IH the powerhouse of mass production had the farmall line, and John Deere with its letter series

Well the engine they chose and had a lot of the design work with, kind of put MM behind the eight ball right from the start. My JT engine has a lot of stress cracks in the block, lots of bubble gum welds here and there and not to mention the manifold was not honey either.

I contacted the Waukesha Engine Historical Society and asked about this engine, like every one said, there is very very little information out there on this engine. Dennis from WEHS told me according to records from 1932 to 1937 about 7000 engines were built and after the run was done all the tooling, patterns and plans were either returned to MM or destroyed. I did get a manual for the engine from him for a Waukesha Model 4-55 engine which appears to be the same engine as a JE

The engine is not very heavy duty, I can see why it was a candidate for replacement.

I am planning on making a new manifolds, I am currently working with a local foundry on getting it right. I think it will be the fall of 2018 when I will have the manifolds cast. If anyone is interested, drop me a line.


 
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tedellefson
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:37 am    Post subject: Re: Is this a MM JT? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thank-you for the great information and the nice picture of your tractor. Looks like a great project!
 
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Nordic06!
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:40 am    Post subject: Re: Is this a MM JT? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I would like to hear more information of the JT manifolds you are having made. Our JTS could definitely use a new one and they are impossible to find. As long as they are affordable I'm sure there would be quite a few Moline collectors that would like to get their hands on one.
 
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primerk5
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Is this a MM JT? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I picked up a JT row crop as well as a JT Standard on full steel over the summer. Both have their original Waukesha engines. I have the standard going and its my favorite tractors that I own. I bought the row crop as a parts tractor. It is almost complete but the tank is shot and I had to rob the impeller from the water pump for the standard as well as the oil filter. It actually has a decent manifold but I hate to part the tractor as I feel it could possibly be repaired and these tractors don't appear to be all that common in my area.

From my research, the RE was offered as replacement due to the waukesha being underpowered for the tractor. The kit would contain a new hood, engine and air cleaner. I thought it also had a new tank as well but the OP appears to retain it's original tank. I found a picture of a JT that someone had restored and all the kit components we're painted prairie gold and the rest was twin City grey.

I wish I had that PTO on the OP tractor. I hear a z PTO will work but the shaft may be too long as the z transmission is a bit longer and I don't want that big pto with lift mechanism that the Z gets.
 
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jr1983
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:36 am    Post subject: Re: Is this a MM JT? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Doesn't a z use the same PTO as. U?
 
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primerk5
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:02 am    Post subject: Re: Is this a MM JT? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Here is what I was talking about with the kit items being painted differently. I'm still not so sure on the gas tank. It might just be that they replaced the tank due to it going bad or something.







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MMDEL
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:19 am    Post subject: Re: Is this a MM JT? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

You are right! That gas tank was not ever used on that tractor. Gas tanks with the rounded corners did not come out until the fifties.
MMDEL
 
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primerk5
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:17 am    Post subject: Re: Is this a MM JT? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

MMDEL wrote:
(quoted from post at 10:19:56 01/10/1Cool You are right! That gas tank was not ever used on that tractor. Gas tanks with the rounded corners did not come out until the fifties.
MMDEL


I just wasn't sure it wasn't part of the kit to change to the RE engine.
 
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