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New Idea Hay rake

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molinegb
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 4:26 pm    Post subject: Re: New Idea Hay rake Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Corn planters never seen except new ones. Only mower any good was the IH 100 or 1100. JD 5 was also a decent one. Last mowers used here were the 18 ft hydraulic driven Rowse which used 2 9 ft IH 1100 cutting bars. Now everything haybines. No farms under 160 acres. Most hay farmers do 500-1500 acres. I am small and I do around 400. Rakes only used to turn swath if it gets rained on. Middle of Canada 20 minutes across border.
 
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old
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 5:03 pm    Post subject: Re: New Idea Hay rake Reply to specific post Reply with quote

It is to bad your not a lot closer to me. I still have a lot of parts form those 2 IH rakes that you have gotten parts from. Shoot I have used a bunch of the angle iron from the frame to repair things here on the farm and that old steel seem to be real good for that
 
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Leroy
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 6:04 pm    Post subject: Re: New Idea Hay rake Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Old, what he has is a Deere 594 rake built in same time frame but your McCormick were a lot better rake, made a lot stronger. The only thing on a Deere that was better was the lift system for the back end of the real. O the angle of the tooth was easier to adjust on the Deere but once the rake was in field and adjusted that was never changed. Now on the older 3 bar McCormick rake-tedder and the New Idea you did adjust angle of tooth easly when you changed from rake setting to ted setting.
 
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Leroy
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 6:18 pm    Post subject: Re: New Idea Hay rake Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I live about 40 mile east of Coldwater, Ohio where those rakes were built. A lot of the Amish farms will start at 20 acres and go up with a very big farm being 160 acres. The ones that I know do not own balers but hire it done or they still use the old hayloaders and put up the hay loose. The New Idea No. 4 & 44 were the only 4 bar rakes to ever be made with a tedder action in all of them. The Moline rake could be bought with the tedder gear as an extra but you cannot get parts for them. The New Idea 3 bar was always a combination as well as the McCormick 3 bar rake-tedder but untill end of its production in I forget 58 or 60 was still old style from the 20's that did not have grease zerks. The later McCormick was only a rake as was the later Massey Harris that was almost identical to the McCormick and I think they might have been made in same factory in Canada. The last steel wheel hay rake to be made was in 1960 as neer as I can find. I would guess in the last 20 years I have handled probably around 60 rakes. Rebuilding a lot of them.
 
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rankrank1
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 6:19 pm    Post subject: Re: New Idea Hay rake Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The New Idea 44 (and it other similar models) is a fine rake (and a tedder too)if it has been stored indoors. If one has been stored outdoors, then I do not care for it at all. All the metal in it is very lightweight and thin sheet iron. Anywhere strength is needed the thin layers of metal are riveted together in laminated layers to make a more sturdy beam in lieu of actually using a thick piece of metal. When stored outdoors moisture gets between the laminated layers and it can rust out very quickly.

The JD 594 on the other hand has some real metal in it (although it will not reverse to tedd). Love either my two JD 594's for my piddle patch hay operation. Have not even broke a single tine in over 5 years. Cheapest grease I can buy and go and my rakes get used for improvised tedders too so they cover more acres than you think.

Those old IH rakes well, I would not give 2 cents for one of those. Every one I seen is always falling apart even when I was a kid. Give me a David Bradley or even on old Oliver basket, or Case basket rake over an IH rake of that era IMOP.

That all said, the best of these ole rakes can do a fine job on a small acreage operation even today (as long as road travel is not part of the equation - even the rubber tire models suck to tow anywhere and the steel wheels speak for themselves), The best one of this style regardless of the brand picked would not be well suited for a large acreage operation.
 
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Leroy
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:34 pm    Post subject: Re: New Idea Hay rake Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I have wiorked on many a New Idea and never found one rusted out as you say. The big rust problem is the bearings on the bars and they are tighter than most others and if not greased and left set out then that is where they like to stick. As far as the Deere made heavier the main frame is heavier than the NI but the trus style is stronger. And have you ever seen the main frame backbone of the rake completely rusted off from the way they are made that the water just sets in them. I just had to replace that backbone on a 594 Deere that it was completely rusted away. And the drive in a McCormick is twice the weight of the Deere, Yes the Deere can be a good rake but so can the others. I have worked on the Case 160 and 170 as well and are a good rake but no ted but they just do not sell. David Bradley is a very good rake but they were never made on steel and no parts avaible so not wanted and the Oliver was not made on steel so not wanted and I have no idea if parts are avaible or not. So far I have been able to find used parts for what I needed on the McCormic rakes. A New Idea will swll for about $200 more than a McCormic and the McCormick that much more than the 594 Deere. And I have had for my own use the No. 4 New Idea, David Bradley and JD 594LW. The Deere on short straw or hay in windy day with those stripper bars 12" apart the crop would just go between them and wrap up on the real. The others with the bars 6" apart do not do that. The later 594 rakes could have more bars put in to make them 8" apart but problem is finding the bars to do that. If I could find enough bars I would do that with the 594LW that I have setting here for rebuilding. Non't know yet if I will convert it to a 594 or get new amish made steel wheels to put on it. And same for a NI 45-G that I have to rebuild. The David Bradley rake was a slightly better rake for raking but it would not ted.Most of the Amish if they have a non ted rake to rake with they have either a NI rake or a McCormick rake-tedder to use as they have to ted having no conditioners.
 
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rankrank1
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:40 pm    Post subject: Re: New Idea Hay rake Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Well your customer base eliminates better rakes simply since they are not on steel wheels...as a fixer and a seller like you are I would do the same to maximize profit on what sells the best instead of what works best.

The JD 594 rakes with the close stripper bars is known as the "mint" option and I would not mind having one of those either - although the standard bar configuration works fine on my crops. As for your comment about the frame rusting out; I simply drilled 2 weep holes in those heavy frame yoke castings that tend to hold water so they would drain...problem solved.

I like the New Idea rakes just never been able to find one in good enough condition at a price I was willing to pay. The reverse tedd feature of the NI would be nice although it is possible to improvise tedd with the other brand ones too that only have forward basket gear.

As for the IH basket rakes I will still pass on the IH under all circumstances. IH sold lots of em because they were the biggest AG manufacturer of that era, but their balers or rakes never really measured up to the competition.
 
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Leroy
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 8:11 am    Post subject: Re: New Idea Hay rake Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I will agree that the McCormick 3 bar rake-tedder were not as good as a New Idea Rake-tedder with in some ways the 3 bar NI was better designed than the later 4 bar NI. Better real design. But I cannot compair either to a JD just because JD never had that reverse gear. In some ways the MM rakes were better designed than any other of the rakes that could have the reverse gear but I found out in working on the MM rake that altho they were made to be able to ted they just did not put the reverse gear in unless it was speciaally ordered at extra cost. Your Deeres you were luckey to get them when they were still good enough to do that mod on. What I an finding is that angle is half gone or more as in completely gone. The later 594 were drilled for those extra stripper bars but the earlier ones and the 3 bar models were not. But the frame that was drilled every 4" can be put in the ones that were not if you can find them. I was going to take 2 of the rusted away Deere backbone frames and weld them together but found I could not drill the steel. The 4 bar enclosed gear McCormick rakes were several hundred pounds heavier than the McCormick 3 bar rake-tedder that was first built in the mid teens with the second design comming up better than the first.
 
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rankrank1
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:13 am    Post subject: Re: New Idea Hay rake Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I would not look at a 3 bar for my use from any brand as I feel they would not keep up in super heavy modern crop type yields - even the 4 bars can struggle when the yield is super high and the 3 bar would only struggle more. After all even the 4 bars are considered obsolete by modern standards - no sense going even more obsolete if it can be avoided.

Before I bought my JD 594's I really wanted a New Idea with the little rubber tires in front (#45 or #46G or something like that I think). I could not find one at a price I wanted to pay. Ones I found cheap were not usable or repairable as all that thin metal.

Now that I have the JD's I love them, simple and have real metal in them. Easy to weld on if needed as even the castings seem to have a high a nickel content and do well with plain ole arc welding from a hack welder like me. Many of the bushings are easy to make from plain ole water pipe if needed from scrap pile. I am sure some of those other brands are good too, but there were never enough of them around me for me to feel comfortable in finding another one in a fencerow for parts if parts are ever needed. The one that intrigues me the most is the old Case 4 bar rake model F170 or something like that I think. I would like to try one of those for giggles but without buying it. In all my years of looking at them I have only seen 2 and neither was for sale.
 
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pjbofmn
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:18 pm    Post subject: Re: New Idea Hay rake Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Where can you get parts for 449 or 450a planter
 
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Leroy
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:10 pm    Post subject: Re: New Idea Hay rake Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I think the dealer could get some but not all. Some fits the newer planters. Depends on what is needed. Disk openers are if I recall same as a 56 planter but not mounts. And seed boxes about all use same parts.
 
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