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Swapping PTO Soon

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Dollar Bill
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:21 am    Post subject: Re: Swapping PTO Soon Reply to specific post Reply with quote

mcharley94 wrote:
Doesn't seem all that bad to me.


You're right, it wasn't much cleaner than that when brand new.

Either the tractor wasn't used in the dirt or PO had it apart and did a proper field day.

I'll be damned if I could break loose the main plug on the pump...drained it pulling a bolt next to it instead. I was able to get the one under the trans off though, but it took just about all I had in me to do so. What tool do y'all use to break em' loose?

Impact wrench. Plug is steel and case is aluminum - Not uncommon for corrosion to develop due to dissimilar metals. Coat threads of plug with anti-seize upon reassembly.
 
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mcharley94
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:05 am    Post subject: Re: Swapping PTO Soon Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Dollar Bill wrote:
Those cracks could have been in the mold when casting the aluminum. It may be hard to see with the pump installed but the tell of the tale is whether the fissures are visible on the top side of the casting.

Doesn't seem all that bad to me.

You're right, it wasn't much cleaner than that when brand new. Either the tractor wasn't used in the dirt or PO had it apart and did a proper field day.

What tool do y'all use to break em' loose?

Impact wrench. Plug is steel and case is aluminum - Not uncommon for corrosion to develop due to dissimilar metals. Coat threads of plug with anti-seize upon reassembly.


Very Good! Well I ordered a hydraulic pump base to center housing gasket, and a new drain plug along with a few drain plug gaskets, so at this point I'm committed to at least dropping the pump to inspect. Seeing as shipping takes about a week I guess I have the time.

I do have an impact with a 1-1/16" socket. After posting my question I also read to try a pipe wrench with a piece of wood and a bottle jack. I don't have a bottle jack, but do have a floor jack....I'll probably try this option first so I can feel any movement.

Here's to hoping the remainder of the reservoir looks just as good.....Thanks for the reply, DB Exclamation
 
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mcharley94
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Swapping PTO Soon Reply to specific post Reply with quote

So the PTO and ORC finally arrived today, but now I am waiting on gaskets before I can reassembly things. Meanwhile I recall Bruce recommending some bench work for the pump (probably need parts for that too...I'll have to reread the post). I didn't block the front and jack the back when dropping the pump, Bruce...(forgot that pointer), but didn't have too much difficulty. What I did do was use the same jack/block of wood to lower it out that I had to use to break the drain plug loose. The pump didn't want to drop straight down though. What it took was to gently slide it backwards a smidgen as I began lowering it and then it came right out. Scraping the caked on gasket from the housing took far more effort. I'm not use to working overhead while under a vehicle these days and my arm and shoulder are not very happy ATM Rolling Eyes

I'm glad I did drop the pump though for there was a decent amount of sludge at the bottom of it and the surrounding region, probably a good 2-3 cups worth, which came as a surprise seeing as the trans and rear end regions were relatively clean in comparison.






And while I am posting pics, though I know I'm new to these N's I'm guessing this is not original?



 
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Royse
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Swapping PTO Soon Reply to specific post Reply with quote

mcharley94 wrote:
And while I am posting pics, though I know I'm new to these N's I'm guessing this is not original?



Good guess. Wink The long pin it is inserted into is original though. Many are lost.
They would be used to hold stay bars for the drawbar or limiter chains for a mower, etc.
 
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Dollar Bill
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:36 am    Post subject: Re: Swapping PTO Soon Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Royse wrote:
Long Pin


A bit of trivia on the long pin that was the crux of the Ford & Ferguson lawsuit. The long pin [8n486A] was Harry's design and was one of the two items mentioned in the lawsuit that Ford could no longer have on their tractors. Ford could make the pin and sell it for service only after serial number 237XXX. The other legal stipulation was the 9/2N hydraulic system could not be used after 12/31/52.
 
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mcharley94
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Swapping PTO Soon Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Quick question...so while removing the safety valve today I noticed the cotter key in the end of it was going to hit the control arm below it, so being that I am replacing the valve anyways I proceeded to just pull the pin out for clearance. What I didn't expect was a projectile to come shooting into my chest and onto the floor. I'm pretty confident I recovered all the pieces but I figured just to be safe I better ask. Be a pisser to get it all back together only to have some loose part foil the whole job (see photo).

And before I pull the intake/exhaust valves in an effort to clean those, is there anything else I might need to be aware of Shocked ?



 
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mcharley94
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Swapping PTO Soon Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thought I'd add this for reference...



 
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mcharley94
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Swapping PTO Soon Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Blown Up for better identity



 
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Dollar Bill
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:19 am    Post subject: Re: Swapping PTO Soon Reply to specific post Reply with quote

mcharley94 wrote:
I'm pretty confident I recovered all the pieces but I figured just to be safe I better ask.


Have never had one apart but according to this photo, you seem to be missing the plunger that goes between the spring and safety/relief ball valve.



The control valves are spring loaded too
 
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mcharley94
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:22 am    Post subject: Re: Swapping PTO Soon Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Hmm, well I guess I'll have another look then. Being that that plunger would also have shot out towards me it too is likely to be on the floor. I searched all over the net trying to find a breakdown of that style valve to no avail. Heck, I was only able to find one that was photo'd still in the pump, and one other sitting side by side one of the newer style, but no breakdown of one . Good Find, and Thank You.

Interesting trivia there, DB. Coincidence that Henry stopped building the N's the same year the hydraulic system was blacklisted?
 
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Dollar Bill
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:31 am    Post subject: Re: Swapping PTO Soon Reply to specific post Reply with quote

mcharley94 wrote:
Coincidence that Henry stopped building the N's the same year the hydraulic system was blacklisted?


To comply with the lawsuit, Ford changed the rocker, rocker pin and modified the lift to include position control.

Due to his failing health, Henry Ford II took over from Henry I in 1945 as President/CEO. While looking over the books, he realized FoMoCo was loosing money on the tractors and severed the handshake agreement with Harry. Henry I passed away before the 8N was released.
 
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mcharley94
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Swapping PTO Soon Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CVPost-Bruce (VA) wrote:
Reinstalling the pump is harder than pulling it out because you have a gasket to worry about. (no sealer on the gasket) And, you will probably need a helper to guide the control rod into the pump rocker shaft unless you've done this 6 or 7 times before!


Man, you weren't kidding, Bruce! I accomplished reinstalling the pump on my own by carefully using a floor jack, but I can see how another set of eyes/hands (or at the very least a 3rd arm) would have made it easier. Lining the rod up with the aid of a screw driver while at the same time sliding the pump into place wasn't too difficult, but trying to keep that darn gasket straight bout drove me to drinkin'! After regrouping three times I finally got everything to come together.

So having accomplished that joyous task I am giving my arms and shoulders a well deserved break with the plans to install the new PTO next. Before doing so I wanted to ask...in your post you mentioned needing gasket sealer for the job, but made it clear not to use it on the pump gasket. So I am just wondering what seals would this be applicable to?
 
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Dollar Bill
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Swapping PTO Soon Reply to specific post Reply with quote

mcharley94 wrote:
So I am just wondering what seals would this be applicable to?


The bolts that hold the pump on will leak unless you seal the threads.
 
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mcharley94
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:33 am    Post subject: Re: Swapping PTO Soon Reply to specific post Reply with quote

OK, DB...Thanks for the reply. So no sealant on PTO or Inspection Plate gasket I assume? The bolts for the pump were cleaned of all oil residue before I put them back in. I will pull each bolt individually, confirm they are still clean and dry and then replace with sealant moving on to the next. I have on hand both Ultra Grey RTV and Copper Coat Gasket Compound. Is one preferred over the other (or something different)? I also replaced the test port fitting with a stainless 1/2-20 3/4" bolt with two bronze washers (the bolt bottomed out the threads in the port without any washers and I could not find a 1/2" bolt) and put some Ultra Grey RTV on the threads hoping that will do the job.
 
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HFJ
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:13 am    Post subject: Re: Swapping PTO Soon Reply to specific post Reply with quote


i put my new PTO in without sealant, and it hasn't leaked yet. that was six years ago.
 
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