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Water in oil no obvious cracks - help


 
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JohnMatic
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:13 am    Post subject: Water in oil no obvious cracks - help Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Initially I had white smoke coming from my rocker gasket. I pulled the engine apart, flushed the cooling system, pulled off the head, put on a new head gasket, manifold gaskets, new plugs, oil change and filter and a liquid rocket gasket because I did not think the cork was working. There was some carbon deposits but nothing that looked broken. It all went back together with no extra parts. It started at the first turn of the key and everything seemed good.

When I did some work with it, I noticed it was overheating. So I checked the fan direction, hoses and the thermostat. All were good.

I let it sit a while not knowing what to do. It was inside. After about 6 months, I ran it again. This time it overheated and I got white smoke out of the oil top-up and rocker. Carbon on all plugs.

I took the engine apart again and there is rust in the rocker cover, and water was in the head and oil pan. Oil milky. There are no obvious cracks in the block. The water is siting between the cylinders and not draining out.

I did purchase the new head gasket on ebay and it was not fully copper like the old one. I was planning on purchasing a new copper head gasket and trying it again. I might add that the replaced gasket looks fine.

Could someone perhaps tell me what else I should look for?


 
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Ron(Ont)
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:55 am    Post subject: Re: Water in oil no obvious cracks - help Reply to specific post Reply with quote

JohnMatic wrote:
]


You did not say but it looks like you have a TEA or TED engine. What torque did you use for the head bolts? And did you go back and re-torque after a week? insufficient torque could result in coolant leaks.

Why is everything covered in grit, so quickly?

Do you have photos of the top of the head, without the cover on? There is an alloy plug there that can get porous and leak coolant.

At the bottom of the cylinders there are two "figure-of-eight" gaskets that can leak. When you had it apart, without the head, did you turn-over the engine or turn the crankshaft? That can break the seal.

You could pull the oil pan and put some card board under and leave it a while. You are looking for a coolant drip pattern.
 
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Steve@Advance
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:17 am    Post subject: Re: Water in oil no obvious cracks - help Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Not familiar with the TE engines, but in the bottom photo, the copper rings that are partially caught under the top of the liner and hanging into nothing on the other side...

That may be the way they are supposed to be, but doesn't look right. Is that possibly the wrong gasket?
 
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Ron(Ont)
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:36 am    Post subject: Re: Water in oil no obvious cracks - help Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CVPost-Steve@Advance wrote:
(quoted from post at 06:17:14 03/05/1Cool Not familiar with the TE engines, but in the bottom photo, the copper rings that are partially caught under the top of the liner and hanging into nothing on the other side...

That may be the way they are supposed to be, but doesn't look right. Is that possibly the wrong gasket?


Although I prefer the copper ones, I have used this type as well.
 
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John Deere D
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:24 am    Post subject: Re: Water in oil no obvious cracks - help Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Absolutely DO NOT ROTATED CRANKSHST. Sleeves shall brake loose of the bottom Siamese's sleeve gaskets. Locking plates must be installed before crankshaft is ever rotated.

If you assemble engine with OIL PAN off, spark plugs removed, you shall be able to see if it's a coolant leak from the top end or a coolant leak from the lower Siamese's gaskets:

Coolant leaking into oil pan from between pistons and sleeves or coolant leaking into oil pan from faulty lower sleeve Siamese's gaskets.

Bob...Owner operator TEA-20: Tractor S # 251639



 
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John Deere D
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Water in oil no obvious cracks - help Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Description:

Siamese GASKETs:

Two of these are used per engine on Standard Engines. Replaces 3910267M1, 825864M1
Cylinder Sleeve Gasket Part Number 825864M1:

Info from Yesterdays Tractors:

 
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John Deere D
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Water in oil no obvious cracks - help Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Head had to be planed as GASKET would not seal:


Bob...

 
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Charles in Aus.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Water in oil no obvious cracks - help Reply to specific post Reply with quote


To confirm or eliminate the liner seat gaskets , often also called ' spectacle ' gaskets remove the sump first . When this is off fill the galleries with water and place newspaper on the floor under the engine . Any slow weeping or dripping will make the newspaper pucker and confirm that the gaskets have failed .
 
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JohnMatic
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Water in oil no obvious cracks - help Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thank you for the reply. No I have not turned the engine with the
head off. I never thought to re-torque. I just followed the workshop
manual when I re-assembled.

I also don?t know why its all so gritty. This is why I thought the
problem would be obvious.

I?ve attached the photos of the head you asked about.

 
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JohnMatic
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Water in oil no obvious cracks - help Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thank you. I?ll look at this on the weekend.
 
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JohnMatic
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Water in oil no obvious cracks - help Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Can you point me to instructions on how to replace these? I can?t seem to find these in my shop manual.
 
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JohnMatic
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Water in oil no obvious cracks - help Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Ok, will do. I?m also going to clean my engine up as yours looks like new!
 
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John Deere D
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Water in oil no obvious cracks - help Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I've never seen any instructions on the Installation of the "BOTTOM END GASKETS" were the Power SLEEVES seal at the point were the Power sleeves contact the CLOUNTER bore of the Engine BLOCK:

I have no pictures of said installation:

Others may suggest a different installation of these gaskets. I've always removed Pistons , connecting Rods, cleaned counter bores, cleaned sealing surface of sleeves. Installed gaskets and then lowered sleeves into Gaskets.

Bob..


 
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Ron(Ont)
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:22 am    Post subject: Re: Water in oil no obvious cracks - help Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CVPost-johnmatic wrote:
(quoted from post at 13:04:42 03/08/1Cool Thank you for the reply. No I have not turned the engine with the
head off. I never thought to re-torque. I just followed the workshop
manual when I re-assembled.

I also don?t know why its all so gritty. This is why I thought the
problem would be obvious.

I?ve attached the photos of the head you asked about.


The plug, top center of your head photo can become porous and leak coolant. Are you using antifreeze or just water as coolant? It can get confusing because it helps to know if the problem is an actual coolant leak or just water condensing from a long sit in the barn.

Some thoughts. Are your cylinder sleeves sitting about 0.004" proud of the block. This is very important to prevent leaks.
Have you done a compression check? If you are looking at changing the figure-of-eight gaskets, you need to consider a complete overhaul. If you get the oil pan off, use Plastigauge to measure bearing wear.
 
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John Deere D
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:59 am    Post subject: Re: Water in oil no obvious cracks - help Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Brgs. Clearance check on Crankshaft..

Thrust Check on Crankshaft....

Bob...Retired Power Engineer..... Owner Operator TEA-20...MF FE 35 X and other colored Tractors...




 
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