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3400 Clutch Question

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levsmith
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:36 pm    Post subject: 3400 Clutch Question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Ok, I got a little farther on my basketcase 3400 this weekend. I removed the old engine to replace it with a new (used) engine. I will need to swap the clutch onto the new engine. When I looked in the bell housing, I noticed a few broken plates, a bolt and some sort of cap or plug? After looking at the clutch, I realized the bolt had come loose from the clutch cover and the spacer plate probably swung out and hit something, causing the plate to break. It looks like another one was working its way out as well. I cannot figure out what the cap or plug is, any idea?

Now another question. I was thinking while the clutch is accessible, I should service it. I've never rebuilt or tore into a clutch assembly before, so I don't know what parts should be checked/replaced. I would guess the clutch disc and maybe pressure plate? Is that correct and is there anything else? Just by comparing my clutch to the parts book, it appears I have a 3400 single clutch, which is different from the 3000 single clutch. My parts book shows there is a 12" and 13" disc and plate for the 3400 single clutch. I assume I need to measure the diameter of the disc, and to the best of my abilities without disassembling it, it appears to be a 12". Looking at Yesterdays Tractors parts website for the 3000 series, it shows an 11" and 13" clutch. I'm guessing they don't have the clutch parts for a 3400.

I guess long story short, can you tell what shape the clutch is in with the pictures? If it looks like it needs it, or if you generally recommend rebuilding it, what parts do I need to check/replace? Thanks for any help









 
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Bern
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:56 pm    Post subject: Re: 3400 Clutch Question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The clutch size is classified by the nominal diameter of the disc. At first glance it looks like a 13" based on the finger design, but
measure it to be sure, because that pressure plate only has 12 springs in it instead of the usual 16.

I have no idea what that cap plug is, but I can tell you that it did not come from the clutch.
 
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levsmith
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:46 am    Post subject: Re: 3400 Clutch Question Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Thank you Bern! Is the disc the only part that is usually replaced?

Now I guess I'm off to figure out where that cap/plug doohickey came from...
 
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Destroked 450
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 5:11 am    Post subject: Re: 3400 Clutch Question Reply to specific post Reply with quote


What transmission does the tractor have?
Some transmissions have cup plugs sealing the ends of the shift rails located near the top of the trans case.

It's best to service the clutch disc, pressure plate, throwout bearing and pilot bearing all at the same time while the tractor's split.

Make sure the proper spacers come with the clutch assembly, if not measure the ones you have, search shows 2 different thickness.
 
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levsmith
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:21 am    Post subject: Re: 3400 Clutch Question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Destroked 450 wrote:
(quoted from post at 06:11:06 03/12/1Cool
What transmission does the tractor have?
Some transmissions have cup plugs sealing the ends of the shift rails located near the top of the trans case.

It's best to service the clutch disc, pressure plate, throwout bearing and pilot bearing all at the same time while the tractor's split.

Make sure the proper spacers come with the clutch assembly, if not measure the ones you have, search shows 2 different thickness.


Thanks Destroked. its got the 4 speed transmission. 4 forward and 4 reverse

Excuse my ignorance, I am completely new to clutches. I'm guessing the normal procedure is to replace the clutch disc, throwout bearing and pilot bearing. Is the pressure plate usually replaced or just checked?

When you say clutch assembly, what does that consist of? Is that number 13 in the picture below? If so, what is the reason to replace the whole assembly and not just the pressure plate? The spacers you talk about are number number 9? That is the plate that was broke on mine.

 
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Bern
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:37 am    Post subject: Re: 3400 Clutch Question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The pressure plate is replaced if it is warped or has deep grooves in it, otherwise it can usually be re-used. As for the disc, if it has a
lot of lining left, and the springs in the center are tight, it can be re-used as well. I'd definitely replace both bearings though.

#13 is the complete pressure plate assembly. While it is theoretically possible to replace the pressure plate #14, it is usually not cost
effective to do so. In addition, you would have to have the proper tooling to disassemble and readjust the assembly once you have it back
together.

I think Destroked nailed the cup plug - look at the top inner wall of your transmission and I think you'll find where it came from.
 
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Destroked 450
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:11 am    Post subject: Re: 3400 Clutch Question Reply to specific post Reply with quote


That's the 4x4 manual reversing trans, not sure if it has the cup plugs or not, you'll have to look in the trans case and see if you can find where that plug goes.
Does you tractor have the grease cup on the right side of the trans case and a hose going to the throw out bearing (some call it the release bearing)?
You'll need the remove the clutch from the flywheel and measure it, also need to count the splines in the hub.
Too many variables to guess what you have.

Item 13 is the complete pressure plate

On your's it looks like some bolts came loose, a new spacer and tightening the bolts might fix it, but it's not a easy job to split theses tractors and even harder if it has a loader.
Smart money is to replace all of the clutch components while the tractor is split apart.

That said on my 4500 the grease-able throw out bearing is very pricey, mine was in good condition so I reused it.
Clutch, pressure plate and pilot bearing where all replaced, rarely do I ever replace just the clutch disc.
 
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levsmith
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:39 am    Post subject: Re: 3400 Clutch Question Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Awesome, thank you both very much for your help. I'll try to start tearing it apart tonight or tomorrow to see what I need to order. I guess I'll be back if I run into anymore questions or problems!
 
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levsmith
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 8:54 pm    Post subject: Re: 3400 Clutch Question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Just thought I would update you all. I have not been able to locate where the plug goes yet, but I was able to tear the clutch apart tonight. It is a 12" 15 spline disc.

Destroked, mine DOES have the grease cup. I appreciate you mentioning that as I've never heard of a greaseable throw out bearing before. What kind of grease do you use? It had some sort of thick white grease in it. Also, what is the procedure for using that setup? Do you crank it a certain number of turns every so many hours or what? Now I understand why you chose to reuse your throw out bearing. I think I about fell out of my chair when I saw the price ($903) on New Hollands website!!! I checked mine and it turns nice and smooth, and feels pretty solid so I think I'll try my luck and reuse it as well.

After checking prices on just the spacer plate ($32) and the entire pressure plate assembly ($140), I'm leaning towards just replacing the entire assembly. I think I'd rather pay the extra $100 now than have to split this thing again.

One more question, I need an assembly tool to put this clutch back together correct? Is there a cheap homemade version or a redneck way? I hate to spend $25 on a tool that I will only use one time (hopefully I don't have to do this again). If its really mandatory though, I'll buy it.

Thanks again for all of your patience with walking me through this. I love learning this kind of stuff, and diving in head first is the best way to learn in my opinion.
 
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Destroked 450
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:33 am    Post subject: Re: 3400 Clutch Question Reply to specific post Reply with quote


The regular 4 spd trans has cup plugs at the front of the shift rails, after learning yours is the 4x4 manual reverser I looked and it does not have that set up.
At this moment I'm not sure where that cup plug came from.
What size is it?

Post some photo's of the clutch disc and pressure plate so we can see what condition it's in.

Measure the thickness of the spacers, there's three different thickness's that vary in price from $3 to $33, also where are you looking at the parts.
NH prices I'm finding are much higher and I can't find a 12" 15 spline disc on this site.

For the grease-able bearing I use #2 gun grease, remove the cap and fill the cup with grease, replace the cap and turn it in until you fill some resistance were it's forcing grease into the bearing.
There's a recommended procedure for greasing the bearing but I can't find it at this time.
Normally every 4th time I grease the steering components I'll turn the cap half a turn, but a lot depends on what your doing with the tractor.
I use my 4500 for moving,loading and stacking round bales so I do a fair amount of clutching, my brother uses his 3400 as a normal farm tractor so it doesn't get the release bearing greased as often.
 
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Destroked 450
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:57 am    Post subject: Re: 3400 Clutch Question Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Parts Spring shows spacer # E117GC9 for $2.58
This site and All State Tractor Parts have the best deals on pressure plate #C5NN7563AB
All State TP has the best deal on clutch disc # E8NN7550EA

Not sure where your located but I've gotten all of my clutches from a local clutch builder for many years.
They had the 13" plate and 15 spline disc for my 4500 in stock,
alignment tool from them is only around $10
Don't know if they'll have the spacer or not.

Google kyclutch.com
 
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levsmith
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:04 pm    Post subject: Re: 3400 Clutch Question Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Ok Destroked, below are some pictures of the clutch disc and pressure plate. I wasn't sure exactly what needed to be shown so I included a few different angles. The pressure plate does seem to show some rings on it, but there really isn't any depth to them, as I tried to show with close up and the ruler. I don't if that is enough to warrant a new pressure plate or not.

As far as the cup plug, the diameter is .595" and the height is .290"

I don't know how you managed to find that spacer, but I sure appreciate it! I'll wait to hear from you on your thoughts of replacing the pressure plate assembly or not before I order it though. I also appreciate your link to the local clutch shop. I am in Kansas but its still probably cheaper than the $24 I found elsewhere.













 
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Destroked 450
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:24 pm    Post subject: Re: 3400 Clutch Question Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Reason I asked for the photo's was the cleanliness of the pressure plate in the first photo's, I can still see the paint on the springs.
This lead me to think the clutch may have been replaced in the recent past.
The pressure plate looks good and the clutch disc appears to have a good amount of lining material left on it, as evidenced by the depth of the rivets to the top of the lining, check the damper springs, if their loose and floppy replace the disc.

I don't normally recommend reusing a clutch and p plate but most used ones I've seen had wear on the disc and burnt spots on the p plate. That one looks good, if it where mine and the damper springs looked good, I'd get a spacer plate and put in back in expecting to get several years of use out of it.


This is just a shot in the dark, but take a look at the back of the starter, I'm thinking some starters may have had a cup plug in the end of the drive housing to help keep dust out of the bushing.
Also look up at the bottom of the steering column, I don't remember any cup plugs in that part but in never hurts to look.
 
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