Yesterday's Tractor Co. Parts for Farm Tractors - Compare our Prices!
Click Here or call 800-853-2651 
   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 9N,2N,8N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   Traditional YT Forum ViewClassic View   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

3400 Power Steering Problem

Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic    
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Greendog2219
New User


Joined: 07 Apr 2013
Posts: 10


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 8:45 am    Post subject: 3400 Power Steering Problem Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Hi, I new around here, Hope you guys can help me out.
My fathers 3400 was leaking PS fluid up the steering column and out from under the steering wheel. He had someone change the seal for him but when he got back it would steer to the left but no power to the right. So this is where I got involved. I have disassembled it down to the control valve and noticed that it has 4 springs and 8 thrust plungers. there are no reaction plungers and ball bearings in the assembly.
Could this be the problem or do I need to look deeper?
The New Holland parts catalog shows my missing parts as discontinued and replaced by a spring and thrust plunger.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
Ultradog MN
Tractor Guru


Joined: 22 Apr 2001
Posts: 15445
Location: Twin Cities

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 9:58 am    Post subject: Re: 3400 Power Steering Problem Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Dog,
Welcome to the Ford Board.
Click on the link below for an older post that I think explains that hydraulic block pretty well.
All parts for it are readily available from New Holland. They are pricey but available.
Holler if you need more help and post back with your results.
Click Here

 
Back to top
View user's profile
Greendog2219
New User


Joined: 07 Apr 2013
Posts: 10


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:35 am    Post subject: Re: 3400 Power Steering Problem Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thanks for the quick reply,
If I am reading you right, the two ball bearings and special plungers are required.(This is what I have found on all other posts I have read, wanted to be sure). They can not be replaced with a spring plunger system like the NH parts catalog says.
I need to check with the guy that changed the seals and see if he found any odd little parts left over. Maybe I will get lucky.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
Ultradog MN
Tractor Guru


Joined: 22 Apr 2001
Posts: 15445
Location: Twin Cities

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:36 am    Post subject: Re: 3400 Power Steering Problem Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The two balls are just .250" balls.
Would be available from any decent hardware store in those boxes of misc hardware, fasteners, etc.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
Greendog2219
New User


Joined: 07 Apr 2013
Posts: 10


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 11:32 am    Post subject: Re: 3400 Power Steering Problem Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Ultradog
My NH dealers can not locate the old parts. Do you know where I might get 2ea C5NN3N729A reaction valves. The .250 ball bearings are no problem.
Thanks
 
Back to top
View user's profile
Ultradog MN
Tractor Guru


Joined: 22 Apr 2001
Posts: 15445
Location: Twin Cities

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:59 pm    Post subject: Re: 3400 Power Steering Problem Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I haven't ever had to buy those reaction valves before. Bought a few of the springs but that was all.
I googled that C5NN3N729A number (google is your friend for tractor parts) and it looks like it has been superceded by part #LA33579B and might be available from partspring. They say they have 49 available at $12 apiece + shipping.
Please let us know what you find. The info on this board gets searched by others all over the internet so it is nice to leave a trail of crumbs that might lead others to the cheese.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
Greendog2219
New User


Joined: 07 Apr 2013
Posts: 10


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:54 pm    Post subject: Re: 3400 Power Steering Problem Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Ultradog
The LA33579B Plunger is the same as the other plungers in the valve. The NH parts catalog calls out 8 ea LA33579B plungers and 4 ea springs.

This is what I have in my control valve currently but she don't work. Which brings me back to the original question. Is the 8 plungers and 4 springs the correct configuration or is the NH manual mistaken.

Has anyone had any luck with this setup. 8 ea item #25 and 4 ea #24. the picture was cut on the right side.



 
Back to top
View user's profile
techinny
New User


Joined: 07 Mar 2013
Posts: 14
Location: NY

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:15 pm    Post subject: Re: 3400 Power Steering Problem Reply to specific post Reply with quote

It has been a while so bear with me, the fact that it worked one way and not the other leads me to believe that the parts are not the problem.

When you turn the steering wheel, the spool (round part) that is in the center of the control valve moves up or down depending on the direction the wheel is turned. When it moves, it directs oil to create the hydraulic assist in the steering system. Something was not allowing the spool to move in one direction, possibly something not assembled in the correct order, or the nut that is staked to the shaft being too tight.

Question-was the washer between the nut and the spool a concaved washer? If it was, was the dished side of the washer towards the spool? It should have been. If the washer was not concaved-that IS A problem.

There is a groove in the spool (on the inside of it I believe) that should be towards the top of the control valve.

The nut that is staked-only tighten that enough to put some preload on the concave washer, not to collapse the washer or the springs in between the plungers-which now that I think of it-I would bet was the problem.

Sorry for the long post, I know it is a lot of info, but I hope it helps.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
Greendog2219
New User


Joined: 07 Apr 2013
Posts: 10


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 9:06 am    Post subject: Re: 3400 Power Steering Problem Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Here is what I have found so far.
The concave washer and nut were fine. Did not appear to be over tight.

The spool and bore of the valve were galled enough that I had to use a hammer and drift to get the spool out. I cleaned up the high spots on both parts and now the spool slides freely. The plungers all move freely in their ports and all passages in the valve are open.

I re installed the valve, thinking the galling was the problem, and still have no power assist to the right side.

I am waiting to hear back from the guy that changed the seals to see if he has the two plungers that go with the ball bearings somewhere in his shop.

Question - could it be an internal leak on the right PS cylinder? There is no sign of it leaking externaly.
 


Last edited by Greendog2219 on Fri Apr 12, 2013 9:15 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile
Craig Kruse
Regular


Joined: 11 Mar 2012
Posts: 108
Location: Lake Placid, FLorida

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 4:22 pm    Post subject: Re: 3400 Power Steering Problem Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I can't say I can solve your problem but if you don't have steering to one side you should also check to see if the steering worm is correctly placed in the steering arm sector teeth it has to be in the middle of the travel of both sector shafts. It might have not been reinstalled incorrectly if the mechanic removed the whole steering shaft to service the PS valve. just a thought!
 
Back to top
View user's profile
Greendog2219
New User


Joined: 07 Apr 2013
Posts: 10


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 5:25 am    Post subject: Re: 3400 Power Steering Problem Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thanks to everyone for your replies and ideas.
Here is my update - I am still fighting with it.

With the front end lifted off the ground the wheels turn fully left and right so I do not think anything in the steering box is out of sync.

I swapped the cylinders left to right - no help, so it is not a cylinder. I swapped the lower hoses left to right - no help.

I reversed the spool - put the groove to the top and that seemed to make it worse. With the groove on the spool on the bottom it seemed to have a little assistance from the hydraulics.

The washer on the top of the upper bearing is in good shape and still concave.

I was tightening the top nut down until the bottom of the upper race made contact with the spool and then backed the nut off @ 1/6 of a turn. This did compress the plunger springs a little but had little effect on the concave washer. This is my best guess of the IT manual instructions of "Remove End Play and back off 1/6 turn".

I spoke to the guy that origanally changed the seals and he said it had plungers and springs in all the holes.

Sorry for the long post, I will let y'all know when I am ready for a manual steering conversion kit. Smile
 
Back to top
View user's profile
Greendog2219
New User


Joined: 07 Apr 2013
Posts: 10


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 7:28 am    Post subject: Re: 3400 Power Steering Problem Reply to specific post Reply with quote

From Techinny - "The nut that is staked-only tighten that enough to put some preload on the concave washer, not to collapse the washer or the springs in between the plungers-which now that I think of it-I would bet was the problem. "

This makes sense because the plungers with the bearings are missing from the assembly. They would have prevented seating the race to the spool like I have been doing and allow the spring plungers to center better in the valve.

I will give it a try and let y'all know how it works out.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
Greendog2219
New User


Joined: 07 Apr 2013
Posts: 10


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:10 am    Post subject: Re: 3400 Power Steering Problem Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Latest update -

The needle bearings at the base of the shaft were shot and I suspect the trashed needles were preventing the shaft from going down the extra 1/16" or so to let the passage in the spool open for flow.

Parts are on order, I will let y'all know how works out.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
b00tleg82
New User


Joined: 19 Jul 2013
Posts: 5


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:08 pm    Post subject: Re: 3400 Power Steering Problem Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I was recently disassembling my steering control valve on my 1969 Ford 3400 to replace the lower oring and fix a fluid leak through the steering wheel with a speedi sleeve and new oil seal. Upon examining the control vavle and plunger i found a "horn" type plunger with 2 of the horns broken. After many hours googling I found what seems to be the horn plungers were replaced by the regular plunger and spring in all the parts manuals. Does anyone know if this is correct and if the regular plunger spring setup will finction the same if replacing the horn and ball plunger? Also i noticed the regular plungers seem to have a beveled edge and square edge does this matter when reassembling? Square edge toward spring or the other way around? Thanks so much in advance!
 
Back to top
View user's profile
Greendog2219
New User


Joined: 07 Apr 2013
Posts: 10


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 3:19 am    Post subject: Re: 3400 Power Steering Problem Reply to specific post Reply with quote

b00tleg82 wrote:
(quoted from post at 13:08:25 07/19/13) I was recently disassembling my steering control valve on my 1969 Ford 3400 to replace the lower oring and fix a fluid leak through the steering wheel with a speedi sleeve and new oil seal. Upon examining the control vavle and plunger i found a "horn" type plunger with 2 of the horns broken. After many hours googling I found what seems to be the horn plungers were replaced by the regular plunger and spring in all the parts manuals. Does anyone know if this is correct and if the regular plunger spring setup will finction the same if replacing the horn and ball plunger? Also i noticed the regular plungers seem to have a beveled edge and square edge does this matter when reassembling? Square edge toward spring or the other way around? Thanks so much in advance!


Sorry for not replying sooner, my son took me fishing this weekend.
With my valve assembly, I re-assembled it with 4 spring plungers and it works fine. I did not notice a beveled edge on any of the plungers, you might be able to see a slight mark where the spring made contact. But I do not think it will make a difference.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Yesterday's Tractors Forum Index -> Ford All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
TRACTOR   PARTS TRACTOR   MANUALS
Same-Day Shipping! Most of our stocked parts ship the same day you order (M-F).  Expedited shipping available, just call!  Most prices for parts and manuals are below our competitors.  Compare our super low shipping rates!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor.  We are a Company you can trust and have generous return policies!   Shop Online Today or call our friendly sales staff toll free (800) 853-2651.

YT Home  |  Forums Home

Copyright © 1997-2014 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters