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Changing oil Oil filter reinstall on TO 20


 
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whoknew62
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:57 am    Post subject: Changing oil Oil filter reinstall on TO 20 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Hi, Questions for anyone that may know about MF TO20.
1.I went to change the oil & Oil filter. It took some time to locate any filter. (I put in a wix 1107 But it looks nothing like the Wix that came out. Do not have it handy, but may be a WIX 51107? Steel outside with holes in the steel solid casing. Also a recessed area in a mount area. Fram C153 Looks like the exact match by photo pulled up on Frams online site. My Original manual says you MUST use an inside to outside oil filter.)
2. Having waited long to locate a filter, I now have 2 more questions.
1st easy one. Does the screen mesh go in with the solid part with 2 holes inserted towards the top? or do you install the oil filter on the long mounting , then put the mesh screen in, with the closed solid portion towards the ground. It was moved around in cleaning & waiting on filter. I left the open end to the bottom, closed end with 2 holes to the top.
3. There is a steel type canister that rest inside the tractor. This was loose upon removing oil & mount. (Giggles around, but stays inside the tractor.( Upon reinstall, I wanted to be sure this canister? was seated properly. Doing this, I fould 2 small pieces of steel that apear to be clips to hold possibly the canister in place. 1 was mangled, 1 not.
The job is comlete, no leaks, 20 PSI, but Im sure something I did is wrong. IT SMOKES LIKE NO TOMORROW.
Sorry for the length of questions. Photo would be nice, but no luck. Hope I phrased the questions correctly. She ran Beautiful before I decided to change the oil filter. In short,(Outer canister can move, though it wont come out. Is that held in place by clips? Not sure which way screen goes , open end down or up inside the housing. May be correct oil filter, though looks nothing like what came out. Filter ever came with a large round seal, Just a hair bigger the the filter. That wont seal any part described above.) Any help is appreciated. Thank you, Jerry
 
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Tom Bowman
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:51 am    Post subject: Re: Changing oil Oil filter reinstall on TO 20 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Jerry:

1. I have a TO-20, and I have had the same problem trying to locate the correct oil filter.

The WIX 51107 should be the correct oil filter for the TO-20, but my local auto parts store doesn't have the 51107 in the WIX book any more. (I believe the 1107 is the NAPA version, but it's made by WIX.)

Instead, they list the WIX 51010 for BOTH the TO-20 AND the TO-30, which, as you noted in the manual, should not be correct: the TO-20 requires an "inside-to-outside" filter, and the TO-30 is "outside-to-inside".

As far as I can tell, none of the filters that cross-reference to the WIX 51107, the "correct" oil filter for the TO-20, is made any more.

Here's an excerpt from an e-mail message I received from a VERY popular online seller of parts for vintage tractors, regarding the "oil flow" issue:

Upon further research, of the few major manufacturers of filters, it
has come to light that the filters are now being made that direction
of the flow is indifferent.

Verified with Tisco (they have been selling parts for 75 years) they
now supply these for both as the same filter. Technology has made a difference in 60 years.


You can take that for what it's worth.

Many sellers are listing the Baldwin P40 as the correct filter for the TO-20.
I have both the Baldwin P40 and the WIX 51010, and while the overall dimensions are the same, the ends of the two filters are completely different: the WIX is solid metal, and the Baldwin has a raised rubber washer, that looks like it would seal better than the WIX.

I can't help with questions 2 and 3, because, quite honestly, I haven't changed my oil and filter yet, because I was afraid I'd run into precisely the kind of problem you described! Crying or Very sad

Regarding the screen, canister, etc., you might want to check the archives, as this has been discussed previously. Jason and John (UK), among others, have lots of experience.
 
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Jason S.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 4:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Changing oil Oil filter reinstall on TO 20 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

whoknew62 wrote:
(quoted from post at 18:57:02 04/09/13) Hi, Questions for anyone that may know about MF TO20.
1.I went to change the oil & Oil filter. It took some time to locate any filter. (I put in a wix 1107 But it looks nothing like the Wix that came out. Do not have it handy, but may be a WIX 51107? Steel outside with holes in the steel solid casing. Also a recessed area in a mount area. Fram C153 Looks like the exact match by photo pulled up on Frams online site. My Original manual says you MUST use an inside to outside oil filter.)
2. Having waited long to locate a filter, I now have 2 more questions.
1st easy one. Does the screen mesh go in with the solid part with 2 holes inserted towards the top? or do you install the oil filter on the long mounting , then put the mesh screen in, with the closed solid portion towards the ground. It was moved around in cleaning & waiting on filter. I left the open end to the bottom, closed end with 2 holes to the top.
3. There is a steel type canister that rest inside the tractor. This was loose upon removing oil & mount. (Giggles around, but stays inside the tractor.( Upon reinstall, I wanted to be sure this canister? was seated properly. Doing this, I fould 2 small pieces of steel that apear to be clips to hold possibly the canister in place. 1 was mangled, 1 not.
The job is comlete, no leaks, 20 PSI, but Im sure something I did is wrong. IT SMOKES LIKE NO TOMORROW.
Sorry for the length of questions. Photo would be nice, but no luck. Hope I phrased the questions correctly. She ran Beautiful before I decided to change the oil filter. In short,(Outer canister can move, though it wont come out. Is that held in place by clips? Not sure which way screen goes , open end down or up inside the housing. May be correct oil filter, though looks nothing like what came out. Filter ever came with a large round seal, Just a hair bigger the the filter. That wont seal any part described above.) Any help is appreciated. Thank you, Jerry


Personally I think as long as you use a quality filter you shouldn't have any problems. If the inside of the filter is perforated metal and the outside is too then you shouldn't see any problems whether it is used in standard flow or reverse flow applications. I do recommend staying away from Fram filters. I only use Wix or Agco filters, at one time Wix was a supplier for Agco and they may still be but I don't know for sure anymore, but both of those filters are quality made in my experiences. As for the proper order of the filter, spring, and screen, maybe this will help.


 
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whoknew62
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 5:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Changing oil Oil filter reinstall on TO 20 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thank you much for the info. I will try the #s you gave at some Parts dealers.
Im new to posts & forums, but this sure did help. The fella before you showed a schematic photo. Seems I put everything back the way it came out.Besides the incorrect filter, I now know I should double check there is no missing spring. (Still do not understand why the inner "round metal housing?" is loose, with the 2 little clip like pieces I found. I would think this inner metal casing would be firmly mounted. "Its not made to come out.)
I did get the filter I used at NAPA, a WIX 1107. Same height,Not close on O.D. but to attempt to simmplify in text, it was a basic canister type shape, also very different material, even though it was what NAPA said was the catalog match. (I think that was the Part# NAPA used from WIX).
Main concern about this filter, is its design."The original WIX I Pulled out. Yes the height of the filter is identical to what I got at NAPA, however. Best way I can describe in text, Original Metal housing filters inner opening is resesed down over an inch X mabe 1-1/2" wide on both sides, top &Bottom. I would think there is an important reason for the design.
(Im not good with words.)
In the event it may help someone else. I started this filter search at Tractor Supply. They went to the Fram site online, & that site showed the Identicle Photo of the filter I need. It is Fram C153. Went back today, but now says they need Their OWN Part #.)
Again. Thanks a million for your time. (I will attempt to try to load a photo of the original WIX filter.Not great with PCs.
Best regards, Jerry
 
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whoknew62
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Changing oil Oil filter reinstall on TO 20 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Jason,
Thank you for the schematic photo. Seems I put it back together correctly.
Have to redo this regardless. I do not trust the NAPA WIX 1107.I Mentioned to Tom, Same height, different O.D. & Completely different design. I will try his Part #s.
I mentioned Fram Part # C153, as I saw the actual photo of the filter, Same as what came out.
If it is not the filter, Im still concerned about a casing inside the lower end. " What all of this fits inside." I doubt it should be loose, and mabe the 2 small metal pieces that I found where clips to hold it solid. Will look at your schematic again. (Also going to make sure I didnt loose a spring, though I feel that never went anywhere.
Thanks again. Jerry
 
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Tom Bowman
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Changing oil Oil filter reinstall on TO 20 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Jason, I like the look of the WIX filter, too - it"s got a metal casing both inside AND outside, so it doesn"t look like there"s any chance the filter could "blow out" from the inside-to-outside oil flow in the TO-20.

I"ll try to post a picture of the WIX and Baldwin filters that I have, for comparison. (I don"t know what"s in the TO-20.)

Thanks for the diagram.
 
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whoknew62
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:57 am    Post subject: Re: Changing oil Oil filter reinstall on TO 20 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Hi Tom,
I am going to try to load a photo of the WIX 51107 that came out of the tractor. Hopefully it is not to large a file.
Wanted to show the " resesed " area I am trying to describe.
The NAPA WIX 1107, while the same height, has the holes you slide the filter on with all the way to the top & bottom of their canister.
This original filter, length of holes from top to bottom would be at least 2 inches shorter, Though the filter itself is same height.Original filter is Identicle to photo on bottom. My guess is , there must be a reason for this.
Is this what your WIX51010 looks like?
Thanks again for your help.

 
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Tom Bowman
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:54 am    Post subject: Re: Changing oil Oil filter reinstall on TO 20 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Jerry, if I'm looking at your photo correctly, the 51107 has sort of a rounded "dome" on top - is that right?

The 51010 does not look like your 51107. (Just so I'm clear - the 51107 filter in your picture is one you purchased new, and just recently installed? Was it old stock? The holes look completely different that the 51010.)

The 51010 is about 4.25 inches tall, and 3.75 inches in diameter.

On each end, there is a raised metal circle (same metal as the body of the filter), about 1/8" tall, and 1.25 inches in diameter. (Like a bulls-eye, in the center of the top and bottom.)

There's a hole, a little over a half-inch in diameter, in the center of that raised area on each end. You can feel the edge of a rubber seal, when you put your finger in the hole.

The Baldwin P40 is the same size as the WIX 51010, but the "raised area" on each end is smaller, and made of rubber.

In other words, when you set both filters down on their bottom, the WIX is sitting on metal, and the Baldwin is sitting on rubber.

If the filter needs to seal on the ends, it looks like the Baldwin will work better than the WIX.

I'll try to post some pictures.

A while back, I went to the Fram website, and got a list of "Competitor Cross References" to the Fram C153, which should be the "right" filter for the TO-20.

As near as I can tell, all of the filters Fram's list, including the WIX 51107, have been discontinued. (Fram even cross-references back to the Ferguson TO-18662-2 number, which is the part number for the oil filter in the original TO-20 manual!)

Keep in mind: I have NOT taken the filter out of my TO-20 yet, so I have no idea what I'll find in there. You're much better off listening to Jason, who has actual experience!
 
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whoknew62
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:20 am    Post subject: Re: Changing oil Oil filter reinstall on TO 20 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Hi Tom,
The photo is The Old, or Original filter I took out of the TO20 to replace. Yes, it has a dome type top. It is identicle in all measures & specs to the bottom side as well.This original filter is about 4-1/8" at it highest points. & 4" wide. Outside of the tappered top & bottom, I am primarily trying to show that the hole in center is set down about 1 inch on top, & bottom, in addition to having more steel bowl type clearance outside the hole.
The replacement NAPA gave me, 1107 WIX, is a symmetrical canister type. Same in height at its highest points, but less in wigth, (Mabe 3-1/2") dont know , as it is installed in the tractor.
I wasent aware Jason had experiance with this so I will reply to him again. The spec diagram helped a bit, but mostly to confirm I put it all back together correctly.
1 thing on the spec diagram though, is that spring . That may go down in the top of the oil filter to keep a small nylon ring or something against the inner resesed hole., "when I get the correct 1, or put my old 1 back in I will check it out.")
My smoke & poor running issue that happened after this darn simple oil & filter change, is likely due either to the wrong filter, Or the loose inner housing I have been describing, or mabe both. (Picture a paint can with no top, no bottom, that is what the screen & filter go inside of. Mine is loose. Mentioned earlier, but I pulled out 2 tiny pieces of metal that were laying loose. 1 Mangled, 1 not. They may be tabs to hold this "paint can" housing tight.
Thanks again for the Part #s & description .
Think I will try again, to order the original Fram C153 I mentioned in 1st post. THAT, I saw a photo of, and it is exactly what came out of the tractor, what is in the photo above. Jason said stay away from Fram for some reason. Im simply trying to find New, exactly what I took out.
Well??? I best get back to it.
best regards, Jerry
 
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Jason S.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 8:13 am    Post subject: Re: Changing oil Oil filter reinstall on TO 20 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Yes I did say stay away from Fram filters because of their poor quality and construction. If you noticed on the specifications for a C153 filter it says it is a fuel filter. Go over to tractorpartmart and look at their tripack of filters. $25.37 for 3 Donaldson P550203 filters. They are a better made filter than the Fram.There was a NOS Agco filter on ebay that is exactly the same as the one you took out if you really want one that was made like that.
 
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:33 am    Post subject: Re: Changing oil Oil filter reinstall on TO 20 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Jerry:

The WIX 51010 is on the left, and the Baldwin P40 on the right.
 
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