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38' B Oil Problem

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JD B Mech
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 12:47 pm    Post subject: 38' B Oil Problem Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The tappets on my 38" B are not getting oil. The oil pipe running from the governor housing to the tappet cover is not plugged and the oil pump is generating oil pressure. I suspect the governor is not getting oil either. Before tearing things apart, where should I start to trouble-shoot it? Thanks.
 
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FrankDDavis
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 1:42 pm    Post subject: Re: 38' B Oil Problem Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Easiest things first. There's a resevoir in the gov where the oil line hooks up. Make sure it's not plugged. Pull the LH plate on the gov and you will know really quick if it's getting oil.

Frank
 
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gtx1967jewison@yahoo.com
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 2:17 pm    Post subject: Re: 38' B Oil Problem Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Your tappets are NOT pressure fed. Theres a reservoir (a little catch cup) in the governor area that collects oil & its gravity feed from there. They get (& need) very little oil. Its almost certainly plugged, if not you could have a cracked line to the governor area or something is plugged there?
 
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Lee B
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 4:13 pm    Post subject: Re: 38' B Oil Problem Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Behind the oil fitting that leaves the governor and goes on to the oil gauge is a very fine oil hole dead center at the bottom of that drilled port going straight forward that oils the governor and by sling off every thing else. You need to be sure that passage is clear by probing it with a very fine steel wire some 8 inches long and most of that will wind up inside the governor if it's small enough to fit the hole and the hole is not plugged to badly. It sprays oil onto the fan shaft gear if I remember correctly and from there rains oil down on everything below it.

I would definitely start there.

Rocker arms are fed oil thru an intermittent oil supply system involving the oil pump drive shaft and a hole in it that only lines up to allow flow some 15% of the time at best. But the rockers don't need full pressure or a lot of oil so it works good enough to last 50 years and still going strong.
 
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Mark-Ia
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 5:23 am    Post subject: Re: 38' B Oil Problem Reply to specific post Reply with quote

If you pull the left-hand plate, you will need to remove the mag before reassembly, or you will break the mag..
 
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JD B Mech
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 5:56 pm    Post subject: Re: 38' B Oil Problem Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I pulled the left-hand plate off the governor housing and a lot of greasy gunk was on the bearing and inside the cover. Isn't this bearing supposed to be lubricated by engine oil? If so, clean engine oil definitely isn't getting to it. I tried to reinstall the plate and it wouldn't go all the way on, and I suspect the fan shaft bevel gears have separated because the fan wouldn't turn when the flywheel was rotated. If I take the mag off as you suggest, will the cover go on all the way? And, by turning the flywheel, have I messed up the timing on anything?
 
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JD B Mech
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 6:07 pm    Post subject: Re: 38' B Oil Problem Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thanks for your reply, Lee. Do I need to pull the governor off the tractor to access the small oil hole you're talking about? I'm not sure where it is.
When the tractor is running, the oil pressure gauge is showing pressure......which leads me to believe that oil is reaching the governor because the oil pressure gauge screws in to the governor housing. However, I took the left-hand bearing plate off and looked around inside with a flashlight and it looked pretty dry - like no oil had been slung around inside for a while. I'm pretty sure no oil is reaching the inside of the governor.
 
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FrankDDavis
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:49 am    Post subject: Re: 38' B Oil Problem Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Probably best at this point to remove the gov from the tractor. TAKE OFF THE MAG before you do anything else. Remove the gov and give it a good cleaning and inspection. Do you have a service manual?

Frank
 
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Lee B
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 3:04 am    Post subject: Re: 38' B Oil Problem Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Be sure to remove your mag when you take off that left side plate as the drive lugs are not engaged anymore - if you try to put on the plate again you stand a good chance of bending the input shaft to the mag and this will cause it to break later on down the road, been there and done that, $350 for those little suckers.

The hole is behind the fitting for the oil gauge, just take the oil gauge line loose at the governor case and look in the hole you just made. That's it right there! It's in the bottom of that drilled hole in the cast iron casting of the governor case, it will have a cone shaped bottom an inch or two inside there and dead center of the cone will be the spray hole going forward thru quite a bit of cast iron to spray oil forward onto the fan shaft gear all the way on the front side of the governor housing.

Governor stays on the tractor, an alternate method of clearing the hole is to screw a grease gun hose into that 1/8 inch pipe thread hole in the governor case that feeds the oil gauge and just pump the grease gun till you feel the junk 'blow' out the hole due the very high pressure capable with a grease gun. It will 'give' just like a stuck grease zerk. Then oil pressure will move the soft grease out of the way or an air gun can do that too, and it won't be too long after it's running again till oil is flowing like it should be in there again. You can clear the grease out of there with a can of WD-40 with the nozzle hose too, but I prefer the wire method since you get immediate restoration to the oil flow. And I have such a wire to use.

I concur with your opinion, you should have been looking at a soggy mess in the there with everything nicely dripping wet with oil - it has been plugged for some time now. Which is testimony to how well built these girls are to run without oil like this and still work. Unless you hear squeaking or other odd noises after you have restored oil flow, I don't think you need to worry about any long term damage done while dry. They ARE that tough.
 
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Lee B
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 4:02 am    Post subject: Re: 38' B Oil Problem Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Reading other posts I see you might have tweaked the mag shaft already - that was why it wouldn't go back together, the lugs were not lined up anymore. Depending on how tight you turned the bolts and just how the lugs were positioned then you may or may not have done the pooch. Only time will tell now.

The only timing issue you might have messed up would be the mag timing and you can tell that by the horizontal positioning of the drive slots at IMPULSE mark with the side plate on. It's been my experience that the teeth tend to stay in engagement while the left plate is off and it's really quite hard to find a spot where you can manually force it a tooth or two either way - but it can be done. And that's a good thing because if the drive slots are NOT horizontal at IMPULSE mark they need to be made to be so at this point.

If you wiggle it good enough at just the right spot you can even remove the governor shaft, but everything has to be perfect. And it's no picnic going back in either.
 
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Lee B
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 5:10 am    Post subject: Re: 38' B Oil Problem Reply to specific post Reply with quote

And a note about the mag. You may find that you now need two gaskets to keep the mag lugs from 'riding' the governor shaft drive slots now. This is maybe what really broke my mag shaft, I didn't do that, it's bad enough that it's bent but now one lug is closer to the engine and physically forced against the rotating drive slot with a LOT of pressure - so eventually it HAS to fatigue and break.

IF you mount your mag a bit further away to compensate for this damage, maybe it never will break? Maybe two extra gaskets under the mag flange? I never heard anything about the left plate and mag removal first connection. I didn't even connect the broken mag with what I had done for years after I got a distributor replacement. And then only after I heard of the connection. It's so important, the left side plate really should have cast into it the words "remove mag first".

You can turn a mag backwards to defeat the dog/impulse activity to perhaps notice how badly the shaft is bent. If it's not noticeable then you might be good to go, but be sure to look at using extra gaskets to get the mag away from the drive slots. Silly putty/play dough/tortilla in the slot bottoms will show how much squish room you have left with a trial assembly. I remember my mag moving while running, but I just thought it was odd that I never noticed that before and after a few more months it finally broke, I'm thinking now it didn't need to and I could have saved it if I had known what was really going on right before my eyes.
 
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JD B Mech
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:59 am    Post subject: Re: 38' B Oil Problem Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thanks for your input, Lee. I took the mag off and reinstalled the left bearing plate with no problems. I then put the mag back on and it fit like it's supposed to. I timed it and the engine starts and runs well.....again. One thing I didn't mention.........when I tried to reinstall the left bearing plate the first time when the mag was still on the tractor, I heard a couple of small "pops" inside the governor as I was turning the plate bolts. I immediately stopped and loosened it up. However, everything went back together smoothly and it operates correctly and I'm hoping no damage was done and it lasts a while.
At this point, I'm still trying to figure out my oil problem. You said to "take the oil gauge line loose at the governor case and look in the hole you just made". I looked closely at the governor case and the oil pressure gauge screws directly in to the back side of the governor case. Is this the hole you're talking about?
 
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Lee B
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:26 am    Post subject: Re: 38' B Oil Problem Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Yes
 
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JD B Mech
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:25 am    Post subject: Re: 38' B Oil Problem Reply to specific post Reply with quote

OK, I'll give it a try and let you know how it turns out. Thanks!
 
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JD B Mech
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:14 pm    Post subject: Re: 38' B Oil Problem Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Am not having any luck. I unscrewed the oil pressure gauge and looked in the hole with a mirror and strong flash light - didn't see anything. I then stuck a wire in the hole trying to find another small hole to penetrate, but it just went in a couple of inches and stopped.
 
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