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MF 175 Perkins 236 Headgasket Blowd Questions


 
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jogl
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 11:55 am    Post subject: MF 175 Perkins 236 Headgasket Blowd Questions Reply to specific post Reply with quote

MF 175 Perkins 236 Headgasket Blown Questions

Five years ago (750 hrs) I did a complete in frame on the tractor. Head was done by a very reputable shop and quality parts were used.

The head gasket blew out into a coolant passage at the front right side of number 1. Upon dissembly it appears to me that the gap between the top of the sleeves and the head was 0.010" judging by the thickness of the carbon.

Is this normal? Makes me wonder if I did not have the head torqued down just right, which is unlikely as I am quite anel about such things.

I am sure that I would have double checked this before, but can somebody tell me what the factory service manual says for torquing the head nutz? They are 1/2" fine threads.

Thanks,
JP.

P.S.: Sorry about some of the spelling. I used a few words that the politically correct old nanny goats don't think that innocent folks like you all should ever see.

JP.
 


Last edited by jogl on Mon Jun 10, 2013 11:58 am; edited 2 times in total
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Phil Tibbetts
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 12:48 pm    Post subject: Re: MF 175 Perkins 236 Headgasket Blowd Questions Reply to specific post Reply with quote

If I remember right from my 180 the sleeves should be .004 above the surface of the block. It has been a while since I did my 180 so I may be mistaken. If I am I'm sure there is someone on here that knows the correct specs.
 
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jogl
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 12:59 pm    Post subject: Re: MF 175 Perkins 236 Headgasket Blowd Questions Reply to specific post Reply with quote

My non factory manual, which is all that I have available right now, says sleeve 0.030" to 0.035" above block, which is what they are. Also says 85 ft-lbs for head nut torque.

JP.
 
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grs0820
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 1:14 pm    Post subject: Re: MF 175 Perkins 236 Headgasket Blowd Questions Reply to specific post Reply with quote

If it were my tractor I would clean the block and head lay a straight edge over the sleeve, short of having a liner protrusion kit,and put some feeler gauges to see exactly where you are at, Flush to .004 BUT no more than .002 difference under one head. in red neck terms the liners need to be about the same .002, the same...Did you use the old head bolts???? They "MF" updated the bolts several times.And one more thing, Always one more thing..At one time MF was advocating torquing the head bolts and than turning the bolt so many degrees as so a retorque would not be necessary.Caterpillar say this is a more accurate torque. when you tighten a bolt you are stretching it..you pull on something long enough something gonna give..Those engine were not as bad about gasket problems as the 318 and 152..
 
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Phil Tibbetts
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:39 pm    Post subject: Re: MF 175 Perkins 236 Headgasket Blowd Questions Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Are you sure it is not .003 to .0035, .030 to .035 sounds like a lot.
 
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Tom-NoCenTX
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 6:23 pm    Post subject: Re: MF 175 Perkins 236 Headgasket Blowd Questions Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Did the shop that worked the head, shave it flat?
You say in-frame, did you check the block for flat?
Did you use new head bolts?
Did you clean/chase the bolt holes?
Give us more details about the in-frame, and someone on here can maybe save you from repeating this problem a second or third time.
Tom
 
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jogl
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 3:34 am    Post subject: Re: MF 175 Perkins 236 Headgasket Blowd Questions Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Hopefully there is a photo here.



The part above the pencil is from the IT manual. the bit below the pencil is from my 2705 service manual.

The installation was done to the book.

The head had been resurfaced and the block was flat and extremely clean, or true to specs. Stud holes were cleaned and studs lightly oiled as per the manual.

This engine has no head bolts, it is studded. It came from the factory that way when Dad bought it in 1967.

Top of liner and liner flange were to spec upon installation and still are.

The only thing that I can think is that I torqued to 85 ft-lbs as per IT rather than 100 ft-lbs as per service manual.

JP.
 


Last edited by jogl on Tue Jun 11, 2013 3:55 am; edited 1 time in total
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jogl
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 8:18 am    Post subject: Re: MF 175 Perkins 236 Headgasket Blowd Questions Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Can anybody tell me what it actually says in the 175 service manual for head nut torque?

Thanks,
JP.
 
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Tom-NoCenTX
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:44 am    Post subject: Re: MF 175 Perkins 236 Headgasket Blowd Questions Reply to specific post Reply with quote

My MF-690 has the Perkins 248, and the Repair Manual states:
" Fit a new cylinder head gasket, dry. The cylinder head securing nuts and bolts must be tightened in the correct sequence, in three equal stages to a torque of 136 N.m (100 lbf.ft.)"

Tom
 
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Tom-NoCenTX
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:05 am    Post subject: Re: MF 175 Perkins 236 Headgasket Blowd Questions Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The specs I provided below actually say for "A4.236 and A4.248 Engines"
Tom
 
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Tom-NoCenTX
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:15 am    Post subject: Re: MF 175 Perkins 236 Headgasket Blowd Questions Reply to specific post Reply with quote

MF Repair Manual for A4-236 and A4.248.
1. Height of Top of Liners Above Cylinder Block Face ...... 0.71/0.94 mm 0.028/0.0370 in.

2. Flange Thickness of Liner ............. 3.81/3.86 mm 0.150/0.152 in.

3. Relationship of Liner Flange to Cylinder Block Face ..... 0.004 in. above to 0.004 in. below

Tom
 
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grs0820
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:20 am    Post subject: Re: MF 175 Perkins 236 Headgasket Blowd Questions Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Hey slim, we are trying to help but you need to listen, before you go torquing the head you need to find out why it went south...first. where are you liners now, check in 4 positions on each liner. does your liner have a flange? who"s gasket did you use. oem would be best.bolts , studs, they are 40 yrs old they need replaced. 100lbs are for updated studs. not the ones made 40yrs ago...details are the difference between not having to mess with it again or doing it again next year. help us help you!!!!!!
 
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mattwillson
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 6:05 pm    Post subject: Re: MF 175 Perkins 236 Headgasket Blowd Questions Reply to specific post Reply with quote

careful with pulling extra torque on the head studs,
you will pull the threads out of the block.
 
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