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2Q's for MF 202 - Lift Hydraulics & Rear Tires

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RuralTowner
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 7:22 pm    Post subject: 2Q's for MF 202 - Lift Hydraulics & Rear Tires Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Q1: Having before assisted with but never personally dismantled a cylinder, to make doubly sure, the cap on the lift cylinder is turned LEFT to remove? The outer rod seal on the left is shot to hell...leaked out the rest of the fluid all over the trailer while unloading the tractor after getting it home...finally.

Q2: With current tire size of 14.9"-24" on a 13" wide rim, what other sizes still "safe"? ie 13.6-24?? Somewhere on here I saw someone asking about a 17"+ on their 13-wide rim but they were being told about the uncertainty of the bead holding. Sadly used tires seem to be a needle in a haystack in my neighborhood...and though I'll go with new rears if I must...I'll never see my money's worth out of them. So far the only 14.9-24's are no good. Knowing what other sizes are applicable would help in the search.[/b]
 
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Tony in Mass.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 9:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Hydraulic seals//O-rings. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

You can post this question on 'implement alley forum' too, and if you can post some pictures, maybe someone can get a guess-ta-mate of you loader. Neither of my Davis's still have an id tag either, seems like that is the first thing to get squashed. Glad your rams came out ok.
I wouldn't go any smaller than 14x24, anything bigger than 16 would either hit the loader frame or get spaced too wide to fit on a trailer.
This is my '58 202 just coming back together

 
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RuralTowner
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 9:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Hydraulic seals//O-rings. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Will get some pictures tomorrow...too late here to get any images.

Going to go into the equipment shop...with the entire cylinder this time...to make sure they know what I'm talking about. Can only guess they probably think I'm after a complete rebuild kit when just the internal seals (looked like the remnants of O-rings).

For the tires then 13.6 or 16.5 would be the workable limits as alternates? Have never seen 14s but will keep an eye out anyway.

I've got 1 possible local lead for used tires...and 2 maybes...so if the 13.6 and 16.5 (I'll double check the clearance on the tractor for the latter) are the min//max it will certainly help with finding a pair of shoes.

NOTE: As of this post a second set of eyes from a guy I'm in regular contact with via Yahoo that lives in Bristol, UK found a loader that looks identical to mine (though mine clearly has had repair welding work in the past). The loader is more than likely an MF100. Hopefully this might help to get the parts I need now.
 


Last edited by RuralTowner on Wed Jun 19, 2013 9:47 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Inno
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 7:11 am    Post subject: Re: Hydraulic seals//O-rings. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I would check out surpluscenter.com for hydraulic parts, I've ordered from them a few times and they seem to have reasonable prices and most of the parts I needed. As far as the 202 and the 35 loaders being compatible.........eeeh, I thought so but it depends on which model you have. My 35 came with what I think is a Davis 99 (might be a 101)loader while my 202 has a 102 Davis. The 99 is made with much lighter material and the size of the fittings may be different as well as the size of the pins. They look virtually identical but as I found out they are not quite.
 
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RuralTowner
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 4:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Hydraulic seals//O-rings. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I'll check the place out. Thanks.

Good news in another dept though...a finger crosser anyways...might have my tire problem solved for now. On the roadside of the fence...and an 1/8th mile from home saw a rural neighbor (has a CASE gannon//tractor and lives 1/2 mile up and about another over. His truck was overheated and since and I lived less than a minute away...I had some spare jugs of water, then got to talking. Turns out he's got a couple 16.9s by 24. Sun beat but good sidewalls and 50%+ tread with the worst of the pair having a index-finger sized hole near the tread//sidewall joint that came off his rig. Good chance could be patchable but could also go with tubes anyway. Though he's been offered before for the tires...the price he gave me is 2 30-packs of Coors. What the hell...going for it. If it works out saves me from hunting...if not...I follow up as I have been with only minor loss.

Couldn't come at a better time since some of the credit union loan I'd gotten to get the tractor had to be tapped into to for the labor to pull our well...which took the worst time to die on us.
 


Last edited by RuralTowner on Thu Jun 20, 2013 4:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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RuralTowner
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 7:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Hydraulic seals//O-rings. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Grr my reply ended up as a new post: As promised...
That's the last time I change the subject bar in a reply. Elsewhere it just adds a title to the reply...not a new topic.

These are the images of the lift cylinder in question...unless I'm wrong in the terminology. It's the one responsible for raising the left loader arm.

1st image is the offender.


2nd image is where the focus is now.

The outer dust seal has been removed...and already have the replacement. That inside groove where it looks like the remnants of a seal and a fat O-ring, these are the parts I need. As I don't know the exact name of the part it hampers the search.
 
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Inno
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 8:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Hydraulic seals//O-rings. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Now that you have it apart it might be good to take the whole thing to a machine/hydraulic shop. They likely have what you need right on the shelf or in the bin.
 
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RuralTowner
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 8:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Hydraulic seals//O-rings. Reply to specific post Reply with quote


I live in a bad area for such places. Long drive across the state to reach them. I'm told that "in Phoenix" there is a hydraulics place, but not given any names//numbers. Guess I need to grill the Bingham Equipment rep about it then...or hopefully he can at least turn up with repair kits since I have a loader model to give now.

Money for repairs is limited at this time, so I'll settle for seals in the interim. I'm just thankful that appearances aside the tractor seems in fair shape and that tires (my biggest concern since it would've been the BIGGEST outright expense) option has turned up.

NOTE: Out of curiosity...WHY oh WHY does the shift pattern on the transmission seem line an oxymoron since the left-hand lever by the steering wheel appears to be the Forward Reverse control...with quizzically...lever UP being reverse and DOWN being forward. With that lever centered, the tractor is clearly in neutral even if the shift stick is in gear.
 
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Inno
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 4:42 am    Post subject: Re: Hydraulic seals//O-rings. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I have never ordered seals etc. online as I have never figured out how to properly measure them. We have a few shops around that have a good assortment of parts so I just bring things there to be matched up.

As far as the shift pattern, I never really put two thoughts into it. I'm sure it's just how things worked out with that particular transmission configuration. After using the tractor for awhile you won't even think about it, your brain will automatically tell your hand what to do, even if it seems backwards now.
I've driven some cars that were like that, reverse being up to the left instead of down to the right.
 
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Tony in Mass.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 5:28 am    Post subject: Re: 2Q's for MF 202 - Lift Hydraulics & Rear Tires Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Do you have a 'shuttle shift'? Ok, now we need pics of that stuff too. That's a nice industrial option.
Do you ever check out 'you tube'? There might be one or two out of 100000 people who made videos about hydraulic cylinders. That O ring and seal might be all that's there. Just ask in any heavy equip shop near you, anyone who owns a fleet of dump trucks would know of a source of parts. You could use reading material on these things... or start wearing out you search engine- ask.com etc.. and again, you tube..
Hey if you didn't bring that guy 2 30 packs of beer for those tires, let me know where he is, I will buy him good beer! Like Carling Black Label... isn't that right Inno????
Argh, that's made by Coors nowadays too....
 
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Inno
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 5:36 am    Post subject: Re: 2Q's for MF 202 - Lift Hydraulics & Rear Tires Reply to specific post Reply with quote

If it has shuttle shift or instant reverse then it's either another "Franken-Fergie" or it's not a 202.........Although if it were a 204 the instant reverse is on the pedals.........yeah, we need some pics.
I think maybe he's referring to the fact that to put it in reverse you have to move the stick to a forward position. I can't tell you how many times I have thought my 202 was in reverse and it turned out to be 2nd gear........even did some damage to the barn one time. My shifter is pretty worn out though, recently it's started popping out of reverse on me.

Regards finding useful info on the internet, it's still out there but it seems to be getting harder to find. Google etc., because of the way it's designed, puts all of the payed info. first so you have to sort through all the stuff you don't need just to find a link that might be of some use. I've noticed it getting worse just in the last 6 months to a year with some electronics I've been working on.
Don't know if I've ever enjoyed a Black Label Tony, I'm more of a bud light guy, used to enjoy Labatts Blue but that stuff gives me headaches now. Learned long ago that I need to reserve the beer for after the work is done as it's not exactly performance enhancing.
 


Last edited by Inno on Fri Jun 21, 2013 5:40 am; edited 1 time in total
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RuralTowner
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 1:51 pm    Post subject: Re: 2Q's for MF 202 - Lift Hydraulics & Rear Tires Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Don't think its auto-reverse//forward. That lever can be in either position for F/R select, but the transmission must be in gear (ie 1st) to begin moving...of course with L or H selected. Found out that much while trying to load the thing. Won't know for absolutely sure how it all is setup until I can get tires on the tractor (and fix the lift system) and drive it a bit. Also if the tractor isn't a 202 then someone went through the trouble to use authentic looking rivets to put the label from another on it.

Have been hunting ebay since I paid for the tractor (as of that time still had to recover it) for material on it. I have one on the 35 which for many things is still useful (no loader info though) given the 202 is just a modified version otherwise. Found a parts book for the MF100 Loader though...or at least one very similar to the design of mine (did a photo search and tractors claiming to have those, the arm lift cylinders looked identical), so will be getting it as well.

Just found out today from a co-worker (same dept...works on the other side of the county at one of our other parks), that what I'm looking for is the internal wiper seal..in pairs. In the image shown on here I only guessed by appearance that 1 of those being an O-ring while the other is no longer ID-able. Unless fat O-rings were used like that. At this point this is the only thing holding me up then.
 
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Inno
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 4:19 pm    Post subject: Re: 2Q's for MF 202 - Lift Hydraulics & Rear Tires Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I'm trying to think of what you might me talking about. A 202 should have 2 shift levers, one longer one in the middle in between your knees which selects reverse or forward gears 1, 2, 3 and a shorter lever to the right of the main one which selects high range, low range or neutral. Low being fully forward, high being fully rearward and neutral being in the middle. Anything different and we NEED to see pictures.
 
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RuralTowner
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 5:48 pm    Post subject: Re: 2Q's for MF 202 - Lift Hydraulics & Rear Tires Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Nothing different about the sticks on the transmission. It's the one up under//near the steering column.

Originally when attempting to load the tractor I had put the tractor in gear...Low in 1st...but wouldn't move. Then saw that lever...moving into its UP position (Forward on tractors like CASE)...it tried to go in reverse. Moving the lever DOWN makes it go forward.
The shaft of that lever goes down and angles over where it operates an arm that goes into the transmission to the right of the L//N//H selector. A bit hard to see because of the way the sun casts its shadow.

PS...think I got a line on the parts for the cylinder...ugh how nice it would be if could get the parts as-needed and not as complete kits. Oh well. I have an exploded diagram now (3 different types apparently) of the cylinders used on the loader...of which its one of 2 (each has a different amount of internal rod seals) be if comparing images to whats seen in the cylinder nut. Going to have to pull the rod and count the number of washers//seals to make sure I get the right one. The place gave me the numbers to call the supplier direct so as to not have to pay the 45% price bump if THEY ordered for me.
 
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