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Workshop Pluming Question.


 
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Brad Buchanan
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 6:47 am    Post subject: Workshop Pluming Question. Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Hey all,

I am building a heated area of my shop (where I work on my old tractor) and am installing a bathroom.

My questions concern sewer lines and toilets.

Can a sewer line run through an unheated area? The sewer line has to run a distance in an unheated pipe chase inside the building. In this neck of the woods we get sub-zero weather on a fairly regular basis..

Secondly this is going on a slab that is 5" at it's thinnest. A wall-mount toilet would be much easier to plumb and I was wondering how much water pressure do I need for this type? Any special installation items?

Thanks in advance,

Brad
 
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JMOR
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 6:55 am    Post subject: Re: Workshop Pluming Question. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Saw one added in our old cotton gin where they avoided cutting the slab by building a wood box platform high enough to allow pipe below toilet & above slab. When I used it I really did feel like I was upon a throne!
 
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ben there
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 6:58 am    Post subject: Re: Workshop Pluming Question. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

have you looked at composting toilets? neighbor built new house and have them in all 3 bathrooms...they have 12 volt vent fans that run off transformer and take gases up and out thru roof...since it would be in a shop,you prob only have to empty it few times a year...they dump their's into compost drum...i've never noticed any odor whatsoever except a very little during clean out.
 
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Adirondack case guy
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 7:05 am    Post subject: Re: Workshop Pluming Question. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The 3" or larger sewer line itself shoulden,t freeze as long as it has a slope of 1/4" per foot. I would however worry about the toilet bowl trap freezing, without continuous heat. It doesen't take much water pressure to fill a toilet tank. If you have sufficient pressure at your sink faucets, you are good to go, pun intended.
Loren, the Acg.
 
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OldFarmTractor
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 7:57 am    Post subject: Re: Workshop Pluming Question. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Zoning will often tell you what you can and cannot do. A wall hung, tank type does not take much water pressure. If you use a Sloan valve type, you might need to add another pressure tank and a larger line near the toilet.

Next house I build will be all wall hung toilets, easy to clean the floor when people miss.
 
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showcrop
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:17 am    Post subject: Re: Workshop Pluming Question. Reply to specific post Reply with quote


my whole septic line from house to tank, about 75 feet is down only about 16 inches in places due to ledge. no problems in twenty years. As long as a wall mount has a tank you need no additional pressure. To mount a wall type it would help a lot to have 2x8s crosswise between studs to lag it into so that you don't need to worry about hitting studs.
 
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flembo
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:42 am    Post subject: Re: Workshop Pluming Question. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Composting toilets work great as long as you don't get a bunch of guys drinking beer it gets real ugly fast don't ask how I know.
 
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Hal/ Eastern WA
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:46 am    Post subject: Re: Workshop Pluming Question. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I would not run ANY plumbing in an outside wall, other than maybe a vent pipe. We tried some in the wall piping years ago and the copper supply pipe froze and split, causing a bunch of problems.

But I like the idea of a wall mounted toilet on an inside wall, assuming you insulate the wall behind the toilet. I would have the supply pipe exposed so you can easily fix it if it happened to freeze during a power outage or other problem.

As far as running an exposed drain line goes, it might work OK, or it might be a lot of hassle. If I was going to try doing that, I would have as much slope as I could, within reason, and would be very careful about having "bellies"--low spots where water can collect and freeze. And I would get the line underground as soon as possible. The simpler the water/solids path is, the better. Turns might give you problem points.

I would install cleanout fittings near both ends of the exposed pipe, to make it easier to fix any problems that might happen. Good luck!
 
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Lou from Wi.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:43 am    Post subject: Re: Workshop Pluming Question. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Brad,Something to think on, years ago I used our TD20 Dozer to push off ground for our garage. Under the ground was our buried house water line. 80 feet from the house to the well. Guess what? Water line froze during the winter.Used another system above ground,until we could get a backhoe to dig us another line. The line running above the ground was plastic 1 1/4 suction 1" drive,we rolled it with heat tape,one long continuous tape,covered with insulation batting,covered with visqueen,all that was pulled thru a 6" plastic flexible drain tube with no slots,the ends were sealed around the 1 1/4 and 1" tube with foam spray. We buried the whole line in spring as I described 9 feet deep,with 2 1/2 " high density darafoam sheeting on the sides and top. Benn going that way since 1994. no problems.I also discovered, that heat tape has a system that runs thru the inside of the water lines(used in Alaska) very successful from what I can read.
You might consider this type as I described from what we done to that inside water line that would fix problems such as you are considering. Hope all this info helps.
Warmest regards,
LOU
 
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El Toro
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 2:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Workshop Pluming Question. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I used a heater tape on my water line when I had a mobile home. We had some very cold weather and never had the water line freeze. I also rented the trailer for 12 years. The last two years I had more trouble with tenants than with the water line. I figured it was time to sell it. Hal
 
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Jim CIn.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Workshop Pluming Question. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Drains and vent are OK in an outside wall,but no traps or supply lines.Sewer lines don't have to be under the frost line, but keep a good grade of 1/8 to 1/4 in. fall (to the foot).
 
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JD Seller
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Workshop Pluming Question. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I will NEVER have another wall mounted toilet. They are one continuous leak waiting to happen. I installed them in this house when we moved in. I framed the walls with 2x6 studs for good support. That was not good enough. They would wiggle at the wall and the seal would eventually leak. That was using the good foam/rubber seals.

Think about it. The front of the toilet is 30 inches from the wall. When you lean forward to finish business you are on the front edge of the toilet. I weight between 250-290 lbs. (Depends on the meds I am on.) That weight makes the toilet flex the wall mount.

The only one I have left is over a slab. It would take a lot of work to change it to a floor mount. I built a steel angle iron frame to hook the toilet frame too. My frame goes clear to the ceiling for additional support. So far it has not leaked.

As far as your sewer line going through an unheated area. It will be fine. The water is in it for a short period of time. It will not freeze.

Get the slope right. YOU do not want it too steep. The ones I installed have one inch of fall for every 10 foot of run. This is what several plumbing book recommended. If you have it too steep the liquids flow away from the solids too fast. Leaving the solids behind. If you need more drop in the distance you are going do it all at once. I mean 90 degree down and 90 degree back to grade. This is actually good as it will remix the solids and liquids.
 
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Brad Buchanan
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 7:21 am    Post subject: Re: Workshop Pluming Question. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thanks all for the informative replies!

I think I have found the right product to do this job. It is a Gerber bowl/tank set with sits on the floor and exits to the rear.

It features a pressure tank to 'power flush' (I hate the wimpy water saver toilets that you have to flush twice).

The only drawback is the price... $347.00 is a lot for a crapper.

Thanks again for all the info.

Brad
 
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