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fuel efficientcy

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jerry 4
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:47 am    Post subject: fuel efficientcy Reply to specific post Reply with quote

which is more fuel efficeint? useing a 60 horse power tractor to plow with 4 bottoms and chop with a two row corn head/ or a 90 horse tractor to rake hay with? i now its kind of dumb /but growing up in the 70s the biggest tractor we had was a 5000 ford, neighbors had 4020 deeres.the said it would use less fuel because you didnt have to run it as hard.dad just drove agear slower. now all you see are these big time operators nothing smaller than 100 horse.everyones in a hurry,i can remember dad farming 100s of acres with the old ford, and a farmall super c.
 
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wvfarmboy54
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:16 am    Post subject: Re: fuel efficientcy Reply to specific post Reply with quote

60 hp is a tad small to pull a 4 bottom plow in sod and a lot small to pull a 2row choper so i woulkd say the 4020 would be easier on fuel but my uncle pulled a 4 botton with a d17 and pulled a 2row choperand pulled a wagon behind so go figger the old 5 is moretractor than the d17 my thoughts any way
 
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Jon Hagen
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:30 am    Post subject: Re: fuel efficientcy Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Kind of depends on the engines part load efficiency and how much power is consumed by the transmission / driveline.
In example, I used two larger tractors to pull a 21 ft windrower, an implement that I guess consumes about 15-20 HP. The one was a 140 HP 4450 JD with powershift transmission. The other was a 170 HP IH 3788 with manual transmission.

I have read and been told that the JD 15 spd powershift consumes about 15 more HP than the same tractor with a manual transmission.

Pulling the light load of that PTO driven winrower, the powershift JD consumed about twice the fuel of the manual transmission IH.

There may be some light load efficiency difference between the JD 466 and the IH 466 engines, but I suspect the largest difference was the JD powershift transmission was consuming about as much power as was being used to power the implement, so it's engine had to burn more fuel to do the same job.

With both of these tractors pulling a full load, the fuel consumption difference would not have been as great, as the 15 HP consumed by the powershift would have been a much smaller portion of the total power generated.
 
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sotxbill
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:51 am    Post subject: Re: fuel efficientcy Reply to specific post Reply with quote

jerry 4 wrote:
(quoted from post at 11:47:37 07/02/13) which is more fuel efficeint? useing a 60 horse power tractor to plow with 4 bottoms and chop with a two row corn head/ or a 90 horse tractor to rake hay with? i now its kind of dumb /but growing up in the 70s the biggest tractor we had was a 5000 ford, neighbors had 4020 deeres.the said it would use less fuel because you didnt have to run it as hard.dad just drove agear slower. now all you see are these big time operators nothing smaller than 100 horse.everyones in a hurry,i can remember dad farming 100s of acres with the old ford, and a farmall super c.



Down here....

All the hayers... are going back to turbocharged 4 cyl and dropping the 6 cyl. Less fuel, less bouncing at faster speeds.

However being under powered is worse than being over powered.. I used to run a small round baler with a ford 3000 for a couple of years and it was pure hell in first and second gear and really hard on the engine.
 
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pete 23
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:59 am    Post subject: Re: fuel efficientcy Reply to specific post Reply with quote

In theory, it is always more efficient to use a engine near it's rated horsepower output. More horse power delivered per gal of fuel. It does not always seem to work out that way in practice. Look at Nebraska tests .
 
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buickanddeere
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:59 am    Post subject: Re: fuel efficientcy Reply to specific post Reply with quote

NA sixes and Turbo fours are being replaced with TI fours or
the same HP to make it easier to meet Tier III and Tier IV regs
 
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rustyfarmall
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 1:38 pm    Post subject: Re: fuel efficientcy Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The 90 horse tractor will use the same amount of fuel raking hay as the 60 horse tractor, or at least close enough that you could barely measure the difference. The 90 horse tractor will probably be MORE efficient pulling a 4 bottom plow than a 60 horse tractor. Where I live, a 60 horse tractor was always considered to be a 3 bottom plow tractor.
 
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Bret4207
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 3:07 pm    Post subject: Re: fuel efficientcy Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Not really an answer tot he question, but I can tell you that using a tractor that's just barely big enough is a lot harder on the tractor and operator. I'm about 15hp short of what I really need some days, and 1000 lbs too.

A little big always seemed better than a little too small to me.
 
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T in NE
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 3:37 pm    Post subject: Re: fuel efficientcy Reply to specific post Reply with quote

A lot of times we need to run the big horse not for the power, but to have the weight to control what we are pulling.
 
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RodinNS
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 5:13 pm    Post subject: Re: fuel efficientcy Reply to specific post Reply with quote

There is no way on this earth that you're going to run a 90 horse gear drive tractor on a rake and burn the same fuel as the 50-60 horse tractor unless the 60 horse is ballasted down the same as the big one. Then they'll both burn a lot.
As far as chopping or plowing is concerned... I've always been of the opinion that having a bit more than the minimum necessary is probably about as close to maximum fuel efficiency as you're going to get... as long as the engine has the reserve capacity to pull through tough spots and plugs. If you lack the reserve to pull through then you're losing productive time and losing efficiency. You've also go to remember that if you have more tractor... you're probably going to drive faster... and driving faster WILL burn more fuel.
The key to efficiency is sizing the tractor to run at maximum on the lower/mid side of the machine's efficient range. Just the same... you may be in a situation where maximizing the machine's capacity is more important than being ultra efficient...

The one thing I do know... is that people around here that run big tractors on all of their gear are forever complaining about the amount of fuel they use... and I often get by with far less fuel and no more time spent by having things more or less appropriately sized.

Rod
 
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Indiana Ken
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 5:48 pm    Post subject: Re: fuel efficientcy Reply to specific post Reply with quote

jerry 4 wrote:
(quoted from post at 09:47:37 07/02/13) which is more fuel efficeint? useing a 60 horse power tractor to plow with 4 bottoms and chop with a two row corn head/ or a 90 horse tractor to rake hay with? i now its kind of dumb /but growing up in the 70s the biggest tractor we had was a 5000 ford, neighbors had 4020 deeres.the said it would use less fuel because you didnt have to run it as hard.dad just drove agear slower. now all you see are these big time operators nothing smaller than 100 horse.everyones in a hurry,i can remember dad farming 100s of acres with the old ford, and a farmall super c.


Efficiency is defined as; Work out / Work in. For an engine the work out, is in measured in terms of HP and work in, is measured in terms of fuel usage. The Nebraska Tests are an excellent source to compare different tractors. The best efficiency is typically near rated power. You should be able to find examples of small tractors and of large tractors which are very efficient since efficiency (HP -HR per Gallon of Fuel) is more about design than size.

Fuel useage is different than efficiency in that the amount of work perfomed is not accounted for. At idle an engine is using fuel while doing zero work. Therefore, all engines have an efficiency of zero at idle. However, fuel usage is at a minimum or at least very small at idle.

In answer to your question I would propose:

- The best efficiency is typically achieved using a tractor sized such that it is operating near its rated HP to perform the task.

- The lowest fuel useage is typically achieved using a smaller tractor for the small jobs. Again the engine will be closer to it's rated HP. In addition, there is less tractor weight to pull across the field.

Certainly there will be exceptions however this is how I would place my bets.
 
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farmer boy
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:47 pm    Post subject: Re: fuel efficientcy Reply to specific post Reply with quote

It all depends on the tractor. A 90hp tractor raking with an average sized rake will use less fuel than a 60hp tractor pulling a 4 bottom plow, but in terms of hp/hr./gal, the 60hp will be more efficient. I.E- The 60 hp tractor will make approx 16hp per gallon/hr., or use 3.75gal/hour. The 90 hp tractor will be making about 14hp/hr./gal, or use 3.077gal./hour. Because it is only making 40hp, it's using less fuel overall, but making poorer use of the fuel. If the engines are equally effieient at their respective peak rated HP, the one closer to it's peak HP will be working more efficiently. I.E- A 60 hp tractor will use less fuel per hour than a 90 hp tractor doing a job that requires a CONSISTENT 55hp. This is where the problem comes in. Most, if not all, field work doesn't use a consistent HP, so the bigger tractor may very well be more efficient once you factor in your time (and sanity).
 
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MarkB_MI
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:39 am    Post subject: Re: fuel efficientcy Reply to specific post Reply with quote

All other things equal, a heavily loaded engine is more efficient than a lightly loaded one. But tractors are not just engines. Weight has a huge effect on efficiency when we're talking about drawbar power. A small, light tractor is going to have more slippage than a heavy tractor with big tires. To compound matters, the smaller tractor may have to pull an implement at a lower speed than the big tractor. The slower the speed and the lower the gear ratio, the more power is lost to slippage.

In the example you give, pulling a four bottom plow with a typical 60 hp tractor is going to result in a lot of slippage. The 90 horse tractor is going to pull that plow easily and in a faster, more efficient gear. Of course, either tractor can run the hay rake, and the smaller tractor will do it using a bit less fuel. But on average, I'd say the bigger tractor is going to be more efficient.
 
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oldtanker
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 5:39 am    Post subject: Re: fuel efficientcy Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Where the rubber really meets the road isn't in GPH or any other formula, it's gallons per acre. Now a smaller tractor pulling a rake at full or near full throttle may do better at the other ratings but the larger tractor running 2-3 gears higher at 1/2 throttle may actually burn less fuel per acre EVEN IF IT ISN"T BEING RUN AT PEAK EFFECICY. Kinda like your pickup running down the road at 10 MPG with a gross weight of 25,000 pounds compared to a semi that crosses the scales at 80,000 that gets 5. The pickup get better mileage but to do the same work will require more that 3 trips reducing the overall mileage to less than 3 MPG. Gotta figure that the semi can carry about 48,000 pounds in one trip. The pickup with trailer may be able to legally carry about 15,000. So the PU has to make 4 trips.

Rick
 
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Indiana Ken
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:41 am    Post subject: Re: fuel efficientcy Reply to specific post Reply with quote

oldtanker wrote:
(quoted from post at 06:39:57 07/03/13) Where the rubber really meets the road isn't in GPH or any other formula, it's gallons per acre. Now a smaller tractor pulling a rake at full or near full throttle may do better at the other ratings but the larger tractor running 2-3 gears higher at 1/2 throttle may actually burn less fuel per acre EVEN IF IT ISN"T BEING RUN AT PEAK EFFECICY. Kinda like your pickup running down the road at 10 MPG with a gross weight of 25,000 pounds compared to a semi that crosses the scales at 80,000 that gets 5. The pickup get better mileage but to do the same work will require more that 3 trips reducing the overall mileage to less than 3 MPG. Gotta figure that the semi can carry about 48,000 pounds in one trip. The pickup with trailer may be able to legally carry about 15,000. So the PU has to make 4 trips. Rick


In reply to oldtanker,

Very well stated. I would like to add that conversely, one would not want to use a semi to haul 15,000 Lbs which could be done by a pickup.

Ken
 
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