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case 430 low range trany trouble

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tsgtdan
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 6:32 pm    Post subject: case 430 low range trany trouble Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I have a case 430 1964 mfg. Serial # 823xxxx It has a triple range trany. In low range the tractor will only move a few feet, no matter how I select low. I have cleaned the trany filter. When I did the tractor would move a little farther in low than before.I also cleaned both the trany and the differential breather. The trany has hyd fluid in it. I believe the trany fluid was bought at Tractor Supply. It is full according to the dip stick and is not leaking out. The fluid level has remained the same since it was last serviced. The high range works fine and has since I got it. There are no break hang ups, and the engine is great with all kinds of diesel power.
I can use some help
For info:
I own a Yanmar 155D, IH lowboy 185(in the process of restoration), and this case 430.
I try to read as many posts as possible, including archives.
Thanks Guys
God Bless
tsgtdan (x airforce)
 
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Joe Young
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:00 pm    Post subject: Re: case 430 low range trany trouble Reply to specific post Reply with quote

My first thought was the hand clutch was disengaged, but if everything is ok in high range.... Just for grins, make sure the hand clutch engages with a snap that requires 45-60 lbs of force.

After ensuring the hand clutch functions properly, ans is engaged, I would pull the triple range cover and inspect the low range shifter fork. That still doesn't "square" with tractor moving a little before stopping (it should be in gear or not) but I can't think of any other possibilities.
 
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tsgtdan
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:20 pm    Post subject: Re: case 430 low range trany trouble Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Joe explain to me about hand clutch. Is that the long actuator arm on the left side of the tractor which goes into the bottom of the trany case.
 
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Joe Young
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 3:17 am    Post subject: Re: case 430 low range trany trouble Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Yes. It should engage with a snap in the forward position.
 
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tsgtdan
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 4:53 am    Post subject: Re: case 430 low range trany trouble Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Joe
the hand clutch does snap into a detent when pushed forward, and you can feel it. Is it supposed to do the same thing when pulled back?
I don"t have any manuals yet, I"m trying to figure out which parts, owner and repair manuals are the best. Seems like I need some help here also.
Dan
 
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John Saeli
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 5:30 am    Post subject: Re: case 430 low range trany trouble Reply to specific post Reply with quote

How does it react in Direct Range? Sounds to me the cover will have to come off for an inspection.
 
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mEl
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 5:36 am    Post subject: Re: case 430 low range trany trouble Reply to specific post Reply with quote

See my next post, this post was inaccurate so I dumped it, oops!!
 


Last edited by mEl on Sat Jul 27, 2013 9:11 am; edited 2 times in total
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Joe Young
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 5:40 am    Post subject: Re: case 430 low range trany trouble Reply to specific post Reply with quote

There is no disengaged detent.

Contact Rich Tworek who is a Customer Service rep at Case New Holland to get the correct OEM manuals. They aren't cheap, but the OEM manuals are much more comprehensive than aftermarket manuals. If your patient, you may find OEM manuals on eBay. Just be sure you get the correct ones for your serial number. There were three different significant serial number groupings during the 10 year production run of the 430.


rich.tworek@cnh.com
(262) 636-7274
 
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tsgtdan
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 8:32 am    Post subject: Re: case 430 low range trany trouble Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Joe
Thanks for the info on the manuals.
Back to the hand clutch, I push it forward and I can feel it engage, as you said there is some resistance and then you feel it engage. This puts me in high gear. I pull the hand clutch back and I can not feel the same action as when I push the hand clutch forward.
I guess I don"t understand what the hand clutch is designed to do, and what I can expect from the trany when the hand clutch is used.
Sorry for lack of understanding.
Is there some place that I can access that will explain this to me.
Thank you for your patience and help
Dan
 
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tsgtdan
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 8:42 am    Post subject: Re: case 430 low range trany trouble Reply to specific post Reply with quote

mEL
I have removed the cover with the letters H L D on it and all seems to be in order, as best I can tell. The forks are not bent, and all the gears seem to look brand new. As I said before the tractor will move when FIRST put in low range but
only a few feet before it stops. It acts like it wants to move, but it does not.
Dan
 
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tsgtdan
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 8:50 am    Post subject: Re: case 430 low range trany trouble Reply to specific post Reply with quote

John
It does not matter if it is in DIRECT drive or in LOW, when FIRST put in gear it moves a few feet, whether in forward or reverse. As I said in high range it works fine. Please excuse me if my descriptions and part designations are incorrect.
Sorry I got my answers to your questions out of order. Must be a senior moment.
Dan
 
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mEl
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 8:51 am    Post subject: Re: case 430 low range trany trouble Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Scratch all the info I earlier gave, the dual range has the parts I mentioned, not the triple. If the lever kicks back into neutral when it stops driving you have severe gear wear if the fork is not bent and the detent spring is good in the cap providing a good solid detent when the gear is shifted in, worn bearings could also be a factor but you should be able to discover that by inspection of the shaft movement.

The hand clutch provided a means of having a semi live PTO by allowing you to stop the tractor motion with the hand clutch without stopping the pto. In the evolution of tractor drivelines other manufacturers also used this system also.
 


Last edited by mEl on Sat Jul 27, 2013 9:07 am; edited 1 time in total
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Joe Young
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 12:33 pm    Post subject: Re: case 430 low range trany trouble Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Dan

The hand clutch allows the operator to continue PTO operations while stopping the forward (or reverse) motion of the tractor. It does this by placing a clutch in the drive train aft of the main clutch that cuts power to the drive train when disengaged, but does not impact the PTO operation.

For the purpose of diagnosing your issue the hand clutch should be placed, and left in the engaged (forward) position.

I don't understand your description of the tractor "trying" to move. That suggests a clutch or clutch pack attempting to engage. Which would be consistent irrespective of which range (Hi Low or Direct) is used. If the shifting forks were out of adjustment or broken, you would hear grinding or nothing. The tractor wouldn't attempt to move because the gears are either engaged or not engaged.

Maybe there is a misunderstanding of the system, so at the risk of sounding over simplified, place and leave the hand clutch engaged in the forward position. Depress the foot clutch and place the range selector (right side of the torque tube) in Hi, Direct or Lo. Then select your gear with the main shifter (on top of the torque tube). Engage the main (foot) clutch by releasing it.

If that doesn't clear up the issue, you'll need to provide a more detailed description of whats happening when the tractor "attempts" to move but stops after moving a few feet when in Direct or Low.


 
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Joe (Wa)
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 2:48 pm    Post subject: Re: case 430 low range trany trouble Reply to specific post Reply with quote

It is not unusual for the tractor to "lurch" or have some limited travel with the hand clutch disengaged due to wear and/or some warpage of the discs. The mystery is that it is normal in high range and not in direct or low. The clutch may not be staying fully engaged due to weak engaged pressure on the discs.

Buy a cheap fish scale, hook it directly under the clutch hand lever knob and pull forward. The over center snap should ideally be 45-60 lbs. If not you can adjust the engagement pressure with the adjustment pins. You can make the adjustment without draining the oil.

If the over center snap is low and you need help adjusting, post back.

Joe



 
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tsgtdan
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 3:52 pm    Post subject: Re: case 430 low range trany trouble Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Joe
Thank you for the details. I will take what you have sent me and diagnose the situation. Per your request I will leave the hand clutch engaged for all tests. It sure is nice to have some data to work with. Will get back to you Sun afternoon, after I run tests.
The simplification in this situation is much appreciated
 
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