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replacing rings on f20 and cant get piston back in


 
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chummymatt
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 6:33 pm    Post subject: replacing rings on f20 and cant get piston back in Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Trying to get pistons back in f 20 after replacing the rings, I'm using a ring compressor but not able to get it to work, got ring form IH dealer and they measured the piston, having trouble with the oil ring thanks for the help
 
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robgIN
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 6:46 pm    Post subject: Re: replacing rings on f20 and cant get piston back in Reply to specific post Reply with quote

did you clean all of the carbon out of the ring grooves ? Give us a little more to go on, are you going in from the bottom and getting the first 3 rings in and then not the oil ring ? I usually put them in with no rings and push them out the top as far as they will go and use a screwdriver or something through the piston pin to hold it up and then put the rings on and then use a ring compressor and just pop them in. If you have the oil ring on properly it should compress easily and go in. The bottom of sleeve is tapered so you can put them in without a ring compressor, but it seems easier to me doing it my way, I don't have to fight gravity while trying to get it in.
 
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Janicholson
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 6:49 pm    Post subject: Re: replacing rings on f20 and cant get piston back in Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Measuring the end gap is critical. .004 to .005" per inch of bore is needed. This can be greater for the scraper rails of the oil ring but not less. If a one piece oil control ring, it is the same. If the oil ring is 3 piece, a very crisp lower edge is needed on the ring compressor to assure a clean entry into the bore.
A little cleaning up of the top edge of the bore with 300 grit paper to give it a tiny round edge can also help the transition into the cylinder. Jim
 
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Janicholson
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 6:52 pm    Post subject: Re: replacing rings on f20 and cant get piston back in Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I also agree with Robig that groove cleaning is essential. Jim
 
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chummymatt
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:11 pm    Post subject: Re: replacing rings on f20 and cant get piston back in Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Cleaned all of the ring groves with an old ring and used drill bite and my hand to clean oil ports . Trying to put them in from the top then push down enough to put the rod back on
 
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Nebraska Kirk
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:41 pm    Post subject: Re: replacing rings on f20 and cant get piston back in Reply to specific post Reply with quote

.......
 


Last edited by Nebraska Kirk on Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:45 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Nebraska Cowman
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 1:40 am    Post subject: Re: replacing rings on f20 and cant get piston back in Reply to specific post Reply with quote

No, no. F20 pistons go in from the bottom.
 
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Tom Fleming
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 3:29 am    Post subject: Re: replacing rings on f20 and cant get piston back in Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Listen to Cowman. The sleeves have a tapered "forcing cone" machined into the bottom of them.
 
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Tom Fleming
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 3:32 am    Post subject: Re: replacing rings on f20 and cant get piston back in Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Also, Jim is right. End gap MUST be checked and adjusted if necessary before installing the rings on the pistons. Put each ring into the sleeve where it is going to run. Ensure they are in square to the bore. Measure end gap. I am away at a show and don't have acces to my shop manual, but there is a specific end gap that has to be checked and/or adjusted.
 
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robgIN
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 6:16 am    Post subject: Re: replacing rings on f20 and cant get piston back in Reply to specific post Reply with quote

you are making it harder than it needs to be, you will have a heck of a time getting the rod back on the piston in the engine. They go in from the bottom because the rod is bigger than the bore. When I said I put them in and push the piston out the top, I am doing it rod and piston, the piston will come out just to the pin before the rod hits the bottom of the sleeve, which gives you enough room to install the rings and make sure they are all where you want them and use a ring compressor and knock them back down in the cylinder. They are built so you can put all the rings on and just use the taper on the bottom of the sleeve to compress the rings and you don't need a ring compressor, but I like to be different I guess.
 
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Chummymatt
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 6:56 am    Post subject: Re: replacing rings on f20 and cant get piston back in Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I got the rings on and in f 20 thanks for all the help it just takes alittle time and work with the compressor.
Now it's time for the mag what to do, what to do take it to a guy to rebuild, or try and have the guy come to make place to work on it? I. didn't want to take it off if I don't have too. And then comes the carb, I have a kit to rebuild it but, I took the top off and it look really good on the inside, and found out its a kerosene carb mostly don't have the right kit. The main seals I want to replace them, what r they made of? I got a complete engine gasket kit and it has two different size felt gaskets in it r they for the crank seals. Thanks much for the help chummy
 
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36F30
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 9:53 am    Post subject: Re: replacing rings on f20 and cant get piston back in Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Chummymatt wrote:
(quoted from post at 07:56:04 07/28/13) I got the rings on and in f 20 thanks for all the help it just takes alittle time and work with the compressor.
Now it's time for the mag what to do, what to do take it to a guy to rebuild, or try and have the guy come to make place to work on it? I. didn't want to take it off if I don't have too. And then comes the carb, I have a kit to rebuild it but, I took the top off and it look really good on the inside, and found out its a kerosene carb mostly don't have the right kit. The main seals I want to replace them, what r they made of? I got a complete engine gasket kit and it has two different size felt gaskets in it r they for the crank seals. Thanks much for the help chummy


If you got a Kit for a K5 carb, you have the right kit. There is no other carb for a F20 or a "gas" carb they were all Kerosene carbs and work with either fuel.
A bit of advice, the F series hand crank tractors start easy if everything is working correctly. Carb, mag, compression. If one of the systems is off they can be a bear and downright dangerous to your health. Soak and clean the carb with meticulous care even if it looks clean. Send the mag to someone who works on MAGS, someone like Nebraska Kirk. Once you have a clean fuel system and carb, A hot mag timed correctly to the engine, and good intake with compression and tight valves..... It will start easy and run well, so do it right the first time.
The crank seals are felt, the front one is easy, its the smaller one, the rear seal is the bigger one and you have to pull the flywheel to change it. Even with new seals, most F series like to "mark" their territories.
 
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Tom Fleming
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:19 am    Post subject: Re: replacing rings on f20 and cant get piston back in Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I 100% agree with 36F30. My '38 F-30 started every time at the show with 1/4 crank when warm, and 2 cranks when cold (just got back from Stoneboro, Pa.

Nebraska Kirk is the guy to do your mag. I have a really good carb guy, but he isn't cheap, but his work is 100% top notch. He just doesn't just put the carb kit in, he puts the carb back to "as new" specs. which includes bushing the throttle shaft if necessary. I have done a couple of K-5 carbs, and got them reasonably working. However, if you want it right, and on spec, send me a note to my email or PM me here, and I'll give you his contact info.
 


Last edited by Tom Fleming on Sun Jul 28, 2013 5:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
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