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Help. I need a 1/4-32 screw found inside a CDC roosa master

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Jeremy Hart
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 5:05 pm    Post subject: Help. I need a 1/4-32 screw found inside a CDC roosa master Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Well, the day I hired a guy with a truck and trailer to haul the JD 400 backhoe I took on trade for work I completed at a home, the backhoe decided it wasn't going to start for anything!

I finally hauled it home myself after 5 hours loading it on my trailer by myself with chains, straps, come alongs, and chain falls.

fast forward a week and I have the injector pump off. (The shear screws on the drive gear sheared and did their job thankfully).

There is a 1/4-32 flat head machine screw that holds the "leaf spring" to the rotor inside the injection pump. Apparently fatigue caused the head to separate from the threads.

I carefully used my Dremel and was successful in slotting the remainder of the threads still in the rotor and with some heat, was able to remove the threads.

The rotor is high strength carbon steel it appears, so drilling and tapping to fit a 5/16-28 is out of the question.

I've tried emailing a few people that have posted years ago anything about the CDC pump in hopes someone has one for parts.

If anyone has a spare CDC pump for parts and is willing to either sell it to me or remove the one screw I am looking for, I will be an interested buyer.

Please assist me if you can. I have scoured the Internet looking for a 1/4-32 screw to no avail.

I'm hopeful I may be able to keep my tractor running by using this forum.

Jeremy
 
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Jeremy Hart
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 6:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Help. I need a 1/4-32 screw found inside a CDC roosa mas Reply to specific post Reply with quote

This is the parts diagram showing the screw I'm looking for.


 


Last edited by Jeremy Hart on Fri Aug 23, 2013 6:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Jeremy Hart
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 6:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Help. I need a 1/4-32 screw found inside a CDC roosa mas Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Larry,
I'll probably sleep with my fingers crossed tonight. I look forward to hearing if you find one or not.

Best,
Jeremy
 
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Bob
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 8:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Help. I need a 1/4-32 screw found inside a CDC roosa mas Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Parts Depot has 5 of 'em. (DEERE #T11887.) Give them a call @ 800-743-3768 to find a reseller in your area that can order on for you.
Parts Depot

 
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Patsdeere
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 8:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Help. I need a 1/4-32 screw found inside a CDC roosa mas Reply to specific post Reply with quote

did a little googling and came across somebody that was looking for one for a milling machine. they found one at hqtinc.com. No connection to them, but worth a try.

or..... http://www.classicandexotic.com/store/c-430-14-32.aspx
or..... https://fastmetalproducts.com/
 
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Jeremy Hart
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 3:13 am    Post subject: Re: Help. I need a 1/4-32 screw found inside a CDC roosa mas Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Bob, Thanks for the link to Parts Depot.
That P/N is not correct for my pump according to my parts manual. The P/N I need is T26232. (Maybe they cross to each other? I tried the cross reference button, but nothing happened)

The good news is that PD shows 1 T26232 in Tenn.

I will definitely place a call. Thanks for the info.
Jeremy
 
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Jeremy Hart
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 3:24 am    Post subject: Re: Help. I need a 1/4-32 screw found inside a CDC roosa mas Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Patsdeere,
I can find 1/4-32 taps and dies all over. During my searches, I came across someone looking for a 1/4-32 set screw for a bridgeport milling machine. Not sure if that's what you were referring to when you mentioned HQT, but it appears that may be just for taps/dies/cutting implements for the mills. I searched on their site and came up empty on any 1/4-32 hardware.

The link from Classic and Exotic Service looks somewhat promising. It looks like I may be able to have P/N J-990-17 machined into a flat head machine screw.... at least the thread pitch is correct, so there is something to start with.

I will keep that in my back pocket in case I am not able to source an original screw.

At least you got closer than I did. I could only find 1/4-32 in brass, which is worthless for this application.

Thanks again, It's something to go on should I end up empty handed.

Jeremy
 
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JDemaris
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 3:59 am    Post subject: Re: Help. I need a 1/4-32 screw found inside a CDC roosa mas Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I'm pretty sure the screw for a JDB pump is the same thread size. Length might be slightly longer. Easy to find.

I've seen several break. I suspect it happens from over-tightening when someone tries to turn up the fuel delivery.

I'm 200 miles from home right now but sure I have several of those screws laying around - if you don't find elsewhere.
 
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JD Seller
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 6:13 am    Post subject: Re: Help. I need a 1/4-32 screw found inside a CDC roosa mas Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The bad news it that you will need to have the fuel deliver set on a test stand since this screw controls that. That screw will fit form other Roosamaster pumps. They just changed the length a little bit. I do mean a little bit. It is like .050 in length.
 
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Jeremy Hart
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:05 am    Post subject: Re: Help. I need a 1/4-32 screw found inside a CDC roosa mas Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thanks everyone for the replies. I do see where there are shims [PC# 33] (presumably washers) called out that are no longer available.

As this pump did not have any shims, why can I not assume that the "setting" (leaf spring tightened down all the way) would be the same as it was before the screw broke?

Obviously I do not want to over-torque the screw. I assume the screw just fatigued over the 46 years of its life.

I do not like to half-*** fix things, but I do wonder why I need to have the pump flow tested is all. Is it a good idea? absolutely. Would I go that route if I actually changed the leaf spring or any of the internals except a fastener, yes. If I'm ignorant, please be patient with me. Smile I'm new to injection pumps, but by no means am I a hack mechanic. I've set up ring and pinion gears in rear ends, rebuilt turbochargers, built engines, built kit cars, and can fabricate almost anything I have needed so far... except for this screw which frustrates me.

I placed a call to Parts Depot and they confirmed they have one available in Tenn. The JD dealership that told me "none available" and has an account with Parts Depot is closed. I will call them Monday when they re-open to find out what gives.

Above all, I want the part... but I'm also going to ask why I was told there were none available!!! Not good business as far as I am concerned.

Anyway.. It appears I am getting closer to a fix! Thanks for everyone's help.

Jeremy
 
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Jeremy Hart
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:14 am    Post subject: Re: Help. I need a 1/4-32 screw found inside a CDC roosa mas Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I should have asked..

Does anyone have a CDC 6dg tech manual? It would be nice to see exactly how this pump is timed internally. I haven't given anything the thorough look through as far as looking for punch marks on the gears because I didn't want to disturb the placement of the gear in the housing.. so it goes back together the same way as it came apart, but if there are punch marks, then I can get it back together that way.

A tech manual on this old pump would sure help.

Thanks,
Jeremy
 
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JDemaris
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:35 am    Post subject: Re: Help. I need a 1/4-32 screw found inside a CDC roosa mas Reply to specific post Reply with quote

It's in the Deere SM-2045 service manual. I can send
you a link where you can download it for free. Send
me a private email if you want it.

Those shims usually get thrown out when the pump is
being worked on. When in place, they prevent anyone
from turning up the fuel delivery. They are not
needed when you re-assemble. If you want to set
the fuel delivery via the leaf spring properly - all
you need is a 2" micrometer.
 
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Dieseltech
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:50 am    Post subject: Re: Help. I need a 1/4-32 screw found inside a CDC roosa mas Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The screw has a patch to hold it in place when setting the roller to roller. It should never be turned down tight in the head. JD and some MM pumps used the shims to limit roller setting to plus .005 thou over stock to prevent overfueling in the field. All D series pumps have a choice of 4 leaf springs to cover the roller settings range, if screw is tight and setting too low a larger range spring is used. Don't see enough C pumps anymore, but some have the same springs as D series. 11175 is the screw # for D, do remember that much.
 
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JD Seller
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 2:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Help. I need a 1/4-32 screw found inside a CDC roosa mas Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Jeremy Hart wrote:
(quoted from post at 18:05:16 08/24/13) Thanks everyone for the replies. I do see where there are shims [PC# 33] (presumably washers) called out that are no longer available.

As this pump did not have any shims, why can I not assume that the "setting" (leaf spring tightened down all the way) would be the same as it was before the screw broke?

Obviously I do not want to over-torque the screw. I assume the screw just fatigued over the 46 years of its life.

I do not like to half-*** fix things, but I do wonder why I need to have the pump flow tested is all. Is it a good idea? absolutely. Would I go that route if I actually changed the leaf spring or any of the internals except a fastener, yes. If I'm ignorant, please be patient with me. Smile I'm new to injection pumps, but by no means am I a hack mechanic. I've set up ring and pinion gears in rear ends, rebuilt turbochargers, built engines, built kit cars, and can fabricate almost anything I have needed so far... except for this screw which frustrates me.

I placed a call to Parts Depot and they confirmed they have one available in Tenn. The JD dealership that told me "none available" and has an account with Parts Depot is closed. I will call them Monday when they re-open to find out what gives.

Above all, I want the part... but I'm also going to ask why I was told there were none available!!! Not good business as far as I am concerned.

Anyway.. It appears I am getting closer to a fix! Thanks for everyone's help.

Jeremy


Jeremy That leaf spring gets slightly bent when it is tightened down. That bending action makes it longer or short. This how you set the maximum fuel delivery. Also the leaf spring is usually NOT tightened down all of the way. JD put the shims under the leaf springs so that the fuel delivery could not be turned up after the pump was assembled. Yours not having any shims just means that someone has had the pump apart since it was new. It does not mean that yours is set correctly when tightened down all of the way.

Your screw more than likely was twisted part way off by someone trying to turn the pump up at some time.

There are charts that give you the distance setting for each diameter piston. This is the theoretical flow. The only way to really get it correct is to run it on a test stand.

As for the JD dealer not knowing about the part on Parts Depot. The JD dealer is selling JD parts not Parts Depot parts. So I bet that JD parts does not have any in stock.

Many dealers no longer fool with Parts Depot. Parts Depot sounds like they are great but in reality they are not great to deal with as a dealer. Some things Parts Depot does not tell you. 1) Parts Depot used to have a minimum order amount. Your one screw would not be over this. 2) Parts Depot is NOT real dealer friendly to work with. I have gotten parts from them that where not in usable condition and they gave me trouble trying to return them. Because of this many dealers just do not do business with them. 3) Parts Depot's inventory is questionable on what they ACTUALLY have. I have had them say they have something and place the order. Then they call back and say they do not have it. So I can understand the JD dealer not jumping for joy about a parts order that maybe $10.

The JD dealer knows your part is available through many Stanadyne parts dealers. So they know you can go get the part cheaper/quicker from an injection repair place. So it is not like they are hanging you out to dry. You just need to know where to buy the parts. JD has quit having many of the Rossa-Master parts in their parts system because they sell very few because guys get them direct.
 
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