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9n charging troubles

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Old Fossil
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 5:34 am    Post subject: 9n charging troubles Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Good Morning Folks,
Here is the issue: 1946 9N, 6v pos gnd. belt tight, connections good, gen polarized. When running at +1/3 throttle ammeter ( new one ) shows discharge.
I used Bruce's a-circuit troubleshoot flow chart, and when I got to 'jumper fld term to gnd @ reg' the ammeter spiked up very high and stayed there untill I removed jumper. This would indicate a bad Regulator right? What's annoying is I just put this regulator in because the last one failed the prior flow chart step, ' jump bat and gen term of reg'.
I don't want to keep replacing voltage regulators if something else is causing them to fail. Any suggestions? can I repair my voltage regulator? I'll work on tuning my carb while waiting for your help. Thanks
 
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Bruce (VA)
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 5:44 am    Post subject: Re: 9n charging troubles Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Before we go any further......

9N's did not come w/ a v/r. They could be added though.

Does yours really have a v/r?

(picture of a v/r w/o it's cover attached)

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Old Fossil
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 5:55 am    Post subject: Re: 9n charging troubles Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Yes Bruce, it does have a V/R like the one you have pitured. The generator has 3 wires coming off. Field, ground and armature. the old 'cut out' was disconnected.
 
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notjustair
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 6:34 am    Post subject: Re: 9n charging troubles Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Welcome to the world of cheap voltage regulators. I went through 4 of them, couldn't get one to work for more than a month, and bought an alternator. They are junk now.

Best bet is take it all off, take it to a genny shop, and have him pair it with one of his regulators and make it work good. Then bring it home and put it on. Let him wade through the junk. At $40 a pop you will go broke making that old system work with Chinese parts.
 
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Bruce (VA)
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 6:50 am    Post subject: Re: 9n charging troubles Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I haven't had a v/r go bad in years. I've bought them from Just8N's as well as a local shop. Chances are you're not going to fix it & neither will a shop. Even at $40 a pop, it's cheaper to buy a new one.

Maybe someone will start making solid state v/r's; the only fellow I know that did that passed away:

http://wiltonae.com/home/index.aspx
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 7:02 am    Post subject: Re: 9n charging troubles Reply to specific post Reply with quote

OK, so there is not anything else I need to be aware of or check at this point?
 
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Bruce (VA)
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 7:44 am    Post subject: Re: 9n charging troubles Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Nope.

That being said.....if you want to be 100% sure it's bad, pull the generator & the v/r & take both to your local shop. Most of them won't charge for checking both units.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 7:48 am    Post subject: Re: 9n charging troubles Reply to specific post Reply with quote

OK, Thanks.
I'll bite the bullet & order a new V/R.
 
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 7:58 am    Post subject: Re: 9n charging troubles Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Bruce, Just 8N,s shows 2 V/R's, #10505-B and
10505-C. Which one would be correct for my application?
 
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Bruce (VA)
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 8:34 am    Post subject: Re: 9n charging troubles Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The difference between the B model & C model is that the B model was for a frontmount 8N & came w/ a mounting plate. The C model was for a sidemount 8N & didn't need the plate.

The v/r's are the same.

I'd get the B model; save the plate if you don't need it.

All that being said.....

Are you 100% sure you have an A circuit generator? An A circuit v/r won't work on a B circuit generator.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 8:43 am    Post subject: Re: 9n charging troubles Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Bruce, my generator has 3 wires coming from it. 1 from terminal marked GND, 1 from terminal marked FLD, and 1 heavier wire from back of gennerator (ARM). Is this the A circuit you referenced?
 
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NOXJohn
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 8:48 am    Post subject: Re: 9n charging troubles Reply to specific post Reply with quote

If you can not find a shop to take it to for repair
I would buy the 12 volt conversion kit from this
site. I also have spent many bucks on 6 volt N
tractor regulators only to not have them work
correctly. Most places will not let you return
electrical parts so a $40 non working regulator is a
paper weight. The 12 volt conversion kit plus a
battery will most likely cost you $200+. However,
after that you will be able to buy replacement parts
at any auto parts store.
 
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Bruce (VA)
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:32 am    Post subject: Re: 9n charging troubles Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I'm not aware of any way to visually tell an A circuit from a B circuit externally. Remove the belt and wires from the generator. Connect a jumper from the field post to ground, then another jumper from the battery to the armature post. If it spins like an electric motor, it is an A circuit.

Or.........

Assuming it is an A circuit & had an A circuit v/r, look at the v/r. An A circuit will have a bias resistor on the bottom of the regulator between the ground and the field tab.

The B circuit will have a bias resistor between the field and arm tab.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 1:24 pm    Post subject: Re: 9n charging troubles Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Bruce (VA) wrote:
(quoted from post at 10:32:39 09/02/13) I'm not aware of any way to visually tell an A circuit from a B circuit externally. Remove the belt and wires from the generator. Connect a jumper from the field post to ground, then another jumper from the battery to the armature post. If it spins like an electric motor, it is an A circuit.

Or.........

Assuming it is an A circuit & had an A circuit v/r, look at the v/r. An A circuit will have a bias resistor on the bottom of the regulator between the ground and the field tab.

The B circuit will have a bias resistor between the field and arm tab.
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I will try the jumper to the generator test tomorrow, Who knows if it's the correct V/R now, because its the 3rd one since I bought the tractor, and back then it was a real 'Frankenstein', what with all the misc. repair jobs over the years. Thanks for all your help.
 
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teddy52food
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 5:41 pm    Post subject: Re: 9n charging troubles Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Make sure the regulator is grounded properly before you replace it.
 
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