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live pto for Farmall H


 
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Bob And
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 6:21 pm    Post subject: live pto for Farmall H Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I have a customer who was inquiring about a live pto for a H. I know at one time either maybe M & W or Heisler etc. made a clutch mechanism that I'm guessing was mounted on the transmission counter shaft. It was actuated by a hand lever on the left side of the platform but I'm not sure they made them to fit an H. Do any of you remember these or know anyone who might have one to sell? It seems to me that I used to see them advertised in the Tractor Supply catalog. I've tried the salvage yards with no luck. Thanks
 
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walt townsend
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 6:33 pm    Post subject: Re: live pto for Farmall H Reply to specific post Reply with quote

M&W did make them for Hs as well as Ms. I have both ---but not for sale. They do go on left side. Walt
 
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Janicholson
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 6:42 pm    Post subject: Re: live pto for Farmall H Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The mechanism is available used for an H it is difficult to find but works well. The differential drives the bull gears in the final drives. Each end of the differential shafts (left and right) terminalt in the brakes, driving the drum (or disks if it is very late H, SH or Osco-Lambert aftermarket) The shaft has the driver pinions attached just inside the cast housing. The PTO controlling hand clutch replaces one of these differential shafts with a external clutch, and allows the differential shaft to be disconnected from the pinion. When the pinion is not driven, the trans spins all gears except the bull gears and the single stationary pinion. This doubles the speed of that internal shaft, but the trans and all drive train to the PTO are still running. The trans cannot be shifted using this clutch due to the gears still moving. When the regular clutch is pushed in the drive train gears and PTO stop, and can be shifted. It is reliable if kept in adjustment, and provides a semi live PTO experience. Parts are difficult to find, and expensive to locate and pay for. I wish My SH had that feature. Installation requires trans top removal, replacement of the pinion and shaft, addition of the clutch system, and control levers. (it also requires (IIRC) the rolling back of the Bull gear to allow removal of the pinion carrier. Differential adjustment will remain as is, and that is about it. I hope this helps.
 
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Bob And
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 6:57 pm    Post subject: Re: live pto for Farmall H Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I appreciate your answers---figured the system would be pricey but you never know. I'll put an ad in the classified section and see if I get any answer. I figured it would be a quite a job to do.
 
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tractor vin
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 3:47 am    Post subject: Re: live pto for Farmall H Reply to specific post Reply with quote

yes it is pricey,you could offer them a slip clutch on the pto, I would assume they are brush hogging or baleing
 
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mkirsch
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 4:06 am    Post subject: Re: live pto for Farmall H Reply to specific post Reply with quote

After all that, it's not really "live PTO." The M&W hand clutch system simply stops forward motion of the tractor. You still need to push the clutch pedal to shift, which stops the PTO.

Installing is a J-O-B job. You basically need to disassemble the tractor's differential and final drive section to install it.

Parts are no longer available except for standard seals and bearings. You could buy a used one, go to all that work to install it, only to find out it's worthless junk and doesn't work.

Your best bet to get live PTO on an H is to sell the H and buy a good used 300 or 350.
 
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dhermesc
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 5:46 am    Post subject: Re: live pto for Farmall H Reply to specific post Reply with quote

"Your best bet to get live PTO on an H is to sell the H and buy a good used 300 or 350."


Agreed. You also have live hydraulics too.
 
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Bob And
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:10 am    Post subject: Re: live pto for Farmall H Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thanks again guys. As usual got lots of good information. All he wants it for is to bale a few acres of hay, so instead of a live pto, I suggested an overrunning pto clutch. I baled a lot of hay with an M and got along OK. He won't trade this H off as it's one his Dad gave to him and he's already spent a bundle of money on it. Thanks again.
 
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Mfavor
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 3:07 pm    Post subject: Re: live pto for Farmall H Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I have a 51 H and a new holland 273 sq baler. It has a built in over run clutch. Works great. I usually run in 2nd gear.
The tractor and baler look grea t together. The h handles just fine unless the hay is unusually heavy.
Jim
 
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mkirsch
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:48 am    Post subject: Re: live pto for Farmall H Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Yeah, most if not all balers have an overrunning clutch installed already. It's there to prevent the flywheel from twisting the PTO shaft off of your tractor.

The issue you run into with a baler is if you get too much hay going in and you need to stop before the baler plugs. The baler's flywheel may not be able to carry it through while you take the tractor out of gear, and you're plugged.

My grandfather would ride with his left foot propped against the gearshift lever while baling. If he needed to stop quick he'd pop the tractor out of gear with his foot so the PTO would continue providing power to the baler.

If you're real careful about keeping the windrows manageable and consistent, it shouldn't be a problem.
 
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IH fan
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 5:04 am    Post subject: Re: live pto for Farmall H Reply to specific post Reply with quote

As I recall, "back in the day" of the H and M tractors, most balers had engines on them... live PTO was not as important. As live PTO became available on more tractors, PTO driven balers became more prevalent. Doesn't help in this case, but a history lesson for you younger guys Laughing
 
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dej(Jed)
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 5:18 am    Post subject: Re: live pto for Farmall H Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Bob And wrote:
(quoted from post at 19:21:03 09/03/13) I have a customer who was inquiring about a live pto for a H. I know at one time either maybe M & W or Heisler etc. made a clutch mechanism that I'm guessing was mounted on the transmission counter shaft. It was actuated by a hand lever on the left side of the platform but I'm not sure they made them to fit an H. Do any of you remember these or know anyone who might have one to sell? It seems to me that I used to see them advertised in the Tractor Supply catalog. I've tried the salvage yards with no luck. Thanks


Bob--They are not all that uncommon. Did you try Burgh Implement in western, pa 724-452-6880. I would bet they have one. John is off until monday, so you might want to wait til he is back.
 
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