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Ford 2N Draining Battery


 
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Justin D
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 12:16 pm    Post subject: Ford 2N Draining Battery Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I replaced all of the wiring and many of the electrical components on my 2N. The battery holds a charge just fine when I install it and do not run the tractor. However, as soon as I run the tractor then the battery drains. I have tried two different round can cutouts and this occurs with both of them. An interesting observation is that the ammeter reads 0 when I first install the battery. If the turn the ignition key to on then it slightly bumps up. When running, the ammeter reads around -10 at half throttle. After shutting off then the ammeter reads +20. Hence the battery drain issue. If I disconnect the battery and reconnect then the ammeter goes back to 0. If I jump a wire across the cutout to polarize the generator then the ammeter goes back up to reading +20. It seems obvious that it is a cutout issue...I am just not sure what the solution is...any suggestions? Thank you!
 
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36 Coupe
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 12:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Ford 2N Draining Battery Reply to specific post Reply with quote

You have the cutout wired backward.Forget the polarize BS and wire the cutout right.The ammeter is wired wrong or you have the battery in wrong polarity.This is a bum mechanic issue.
 
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Royse
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 3:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Ford 2N Draining Battery Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I'm assuming this is an original 6V positive ground system?
It sounds like your ammeter is wired backwards.
It's simple to just swap the two wires around.
You can measure the voltage across the battery terminals
before starting and after starting to verify it is charging.
Voltage should go up a volt or so running about 1/2 throttle.
Once that's wired right, maybe you can see better what the
cutout is or is not doing.
 
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Justin D
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 3:05 am    Post subject: Re: Ford 2N Draining Battery Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The battery is wired correctly (positive ground) and the ammeter is wired correctly according to the Ford 2N/9N service manual (unless the wiring harness is not made correctly). However, the ammeter being wired wrong has nothing to do with the issue. It doesn't matter which way it is wired. If I reversed it then the readings would just be opposite. As for the cutout, the black wire in the wiring harness that goes to the generator is connected to the bottom of the cutout (the side not labeled battery). There is only one black wire in the wiring harness so I am not sure how the wiring harness could be made incorrectly but I will check all of the wires. I agree that it seems like the cutout is wired backwards but it simply doesn't seem possible.
 
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36 Coupe
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 4:25 am    Post subject: Re: Ford 2N Draining Battery Reply to specific post Reply with quote

It is possible.Ive seen import cutouts with the cap on wrong.Take the cutout off the tractor.Put it on the bench.Measure the generator terminal to case with an ohmmeter.You should read the resistance of the shunt coil.Next measure from bat terminal to cutout case.You should get no reading.Heres what happens when you connect a cutout backward.The battery voltage closes the cutout points and the battery discharges thru the generator.If the fan belt was off the generator would turn like a motor.This will go on until the battery is dead.Post back after you have made the bench test.Your wire harness and cutout probably come from china,the land of almost right.Get your ammeter wired right.A stuck or backward cutout will show a heavy discharge on the ammeter when the engine is shut off.Your ammeter reading back ward is proof that something is wrong in the wire harness.I have owned 5 Ford cars with 3 brush generators and cutouts on them so I know a bit more about cutout relays than you .
 
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JMOR
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:02 am    Post subject: Re: Ford 2N Draining Battery Reply to specific post Reply with quote

36 coupe wrote:
(quoted from post at 08:25:34 09/23/13) It is possible.Ive seen import cutouts with the cap on wrong.Take the cutout off the tractor.Put it on the bench.Measure the generator terminal to case with an ohmmeter.You should read the resistance of the shunt coil.Next measure from bat terminal to cutout case.You should get no reading.Heres what happens when you connect a cutout backward.The battery voltage closes the cutout points and the battery discharges thru the generator.If the fan belt was off the generator would turn like a motor.This will go on until the battery is dead.Post back after you have made the bench test.Your wire harness and cutout probably come from china,the land of almost right.Get your ammeter wired right.A stuck or backward cutout will show a heavy discharge on the ammeter when the engine is shut off.Your ammeter reading back ward is proof that something is wrong in the wire harness.I have owned 5 Ford cars with 3 brush generators and cutouts on them so I know a bit more about cutout relays than you .

"Heres what happens when you connect a cutout backward.The battery voltage closes the cutout points and the battery discharges thru the generator." How does battery reach the 7 to 8.5 volts necessary to close the cut out?
 
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36 Coupe
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 1:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Ford 2N Draining Battery Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Try it on the bench before you run your mouth.The shunt coil will pull in sooner than you think.Once the points close the series coil adds more pull to keep the points closed.You can close the points by hand and they will not open.
 
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36 Coupe
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 2:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Ford 2N Draining Battery Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I went upstairs and got my Ford service manual.The page on cutouts is dated feb 15 1939.Heres what it says ,When the generator reaches 6.2 and 6.5 volts at between 60 and 80 degrees F The shunt coil closes the cutout points, completing the the circuit to the battery.This is an original Ford Service Manual I got in 1956 when I was working for A Ford dealer.In October I956 the new !957 Fords came out.I was busy with new car prep.Checking valve clearance and putting on radio antennas.The antennas were in the trunk of new cars.The 3 relay voltage regulator works the same way 6.2 to 6.5 volts.Your 7.5 to 8 volts for closing cutout points IS WRONG.I was working on cars in 1956, where were you?
 
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JMOR
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 4:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Ford 2N Draining Battery Reply to specific post Reply with quote

36 coupe wrote:
(quoted from post at 18:28:21 09/23/13) I went upstairs and got my Ford service manual.The page on cutouts is dated feb 15 1939.Heres what it says ,When the generator reaches 6.2 and 6.5 volts at between 60 and 80 degrees F The shunt coil closes the cutout points, completing the the circuit to the battery.This is an original Ford Service Manual I got in 1956 when I was working for A Ford dealer.In October I956 the new !957 Fords came out.I was busy with new car prep.Checking valve clearance and putting on radio antennas.The antennas were in the trunk of new cars.The 3 relay voltage regulator works the same way 6.2 to 6.5 volts.Your 7.5 to 8 volts for closing cutout points IS WRONG.I was working on cars in 1956, where were you?
Number one, the manuals address a properly installed cut out, not backwards, the subject at hand.
Number 2: (see Ford tractor specification) "wrong', sorry no cupie doll on that one either!


Number 3: "Where were you? " Just leisurely gathering FACTS/specs to shove into the pie hole of those spreading mis-information or at the very least non-applicable.....we are talking tractors here.
Oh, and just FYI, the Ford cars were 12 volt in 1956.
 
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arnold z
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 4:12 am    Post subject: Re: Ford 2N Draining Battery Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Maybe it's just me, but what I see here is one person stating facts, and another trying to convince everyone he's smarter than they are. Years of experience don't mean squat. Some have 50 years experience, while some have 1 year of experience 50 times. When you're good, others tell you. If you have to tell everyone how smart you are or how good you are at something, eventually you'll convince a few, but not for long. While you guys were arguing, and the op is scratching his head, I've unwired and rewired 3 Ns to 12 volt. The worst you can have with this is a loose wire or a $35 repair on the alternator.
 
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36 Coupe
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:15 am    Post subject: Re: Ford 2N Draining Battery Reply to specific post Reply with quote

We have someone who doesnt know squat about cutouts.I spent about 10 years as a mechanic and 40 years in radio and tv and appliance service.I still do some starter,alternator and generator service in my shop.I do welder and battery charger repair.I have tried to explain how to check the shunt coil in a cutout or 3 relay voltage regulator.Open shunt coils are a common problem.I have a joker telling me the 56 Ford cars were 12 volt.I know this because I was there.Chevy went 12 volt in 1955.A stuck cutout will show a discharge on the ammeter of any car truck or tractor.You cant put a cutout on backward on generator mounted cutouts because of the offset mounting ears.The 9n cutout in mounted on a flat surface and can be wired wrong just by putting it upside down.Same with old JD tractors.If you discount years of experience you are a fool.
 
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arnold z
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 3:56 am    Post subject: Re: Ford 2N Draining Battery Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Yup, Im a fool. Dummer'n sled tracks, and you caught that real quick. I do know that different makes and models of cutout, regs, capacitors,relays, heaters,starters, generators, alternators,ballasts,transformers,drives,sub drives,etc. whether 6,12,24,, or 600VAC all have different specs, and unless I know the specific make/model being discussed, and have the manufacturers paperwork on that specific make/model,I keep my trap shut. It really doesn't take a lot of knowledge of electronics to know that MOST things with a coil and a set of contacts, and one wire in and one out would work backwards if wired backwards. I've also worked with and witnessed many very highly experieced guys in many fields that never got better after the first year. They just did it more years.
 


Last edited by arnold z on Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:01 am; edited 1 time in total
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