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resistor between coil and switch?

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ibtallwalt
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 12:42 pm    Post subject: resistor between coil and switch? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Is the resistor needed in an original 6v positive ground system? It has run previously without one.

I then attempted to install a E/I and gave up on that idea...

Put it back to the points/condensor system as original.

The instructions for the E/I required a 3 ohm ballast resistor.

I read schmatics on the 9N, and see a resistor in the system.

If that's the case, then why would it run without one as it did from the time I purchased it?...

I've installed a ballast resistor between the key and the coil, but, haven't attempted a start yet...

any advice would be a great help, as I'm not the best mechanic.

Walt
 
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souNdguy
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 1:34 pm    Post subject: Re: resistor between coil and switch? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

a 6v front mount system using an oem 6v square coil needs the oem ballast resistor inline with the coil.

if you are going ei.. follow the expensive ei manufacture directions.

i personally would not use 6v front mount ei with the square coil.. i'd get a round coil conversion kit..
 
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Bruce (VA)
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 2:14 pm    Post subject: Re: resistor between coil and switch? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

As soundguy said....the short answer is yes, it needs the resistor.

That's because technology & materials being what they were in the 30's, that square coil would melt if it ran on much more than 4 amps for any length of time. (see tip # 38 for an example). In order to get a hot spark at the same time the starter was drawing max current from the battery, a ballast resistor was added in the ignition circuit. What that did was add about .3 ohms of resistance in the circuit, added to the 1.5 ohms of the coil. That got you 3.5 amps or so at start up. As the voltage increased when the engine was running to about 7.5 volts, the resistor heated up, adding more resistance in the circuit. 1.0 ohms hot, plus 1.5 ohms of the coil got you down to 3 amps or so to keep from melting the coil. The same rule (actually, Ohm's Law) applies to a 12v circuit. I= E/R. Current equals voltage divided by resistance.

All that being said.....are you sure you installed the OEM ballast resistor & not a large, ceramic fixed resistor? In other words, not all resistors are created equal.
75 Tips

 
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ibtallwalt
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 3:07 pm    Post subject: Re: resistor between coil and switch? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Ok, I did scrap the E/I idea and am now back to original system, sorta, Embarassed

Your comment on the type of resistor is correct, I have a ceramic 3ohm style resistor, NOT, the original style that I've seen in some pics...

Glad I didn't fire it up, and glad I asked, so....your saying that the flat type with the coiled wire at the top is the one and do not use the ceramic type ?

Walter
 
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JMOR
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 3:10 pm    Post subject: Re: resistor between coil and switch? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Are you sure you don't have a ballast trsistor & just haven't recognized it? It is the highest piece on the 2 terminal board just below ammeter.

 
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HCooke
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 3:17 pm    Post subject: Re: resistor between coil and switch? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

" so....your saying that the flat type with the
coiled wire at the top is the one and do not use the
ceramic type ?"

Yes. It will run that way but will overheat your
coil and ruin it.
 
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ibtallwalt
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 3:43 pm    Post subject: Re: resistor between coil and switch? Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Jmor, thanks for the pic diagram, I'll save that.

Just looked and did find the mounts where the resistor should be, but they are painted over and it wasn't there from the time that I bought the tractor.

Probably good reason for my issues in keeping this ( traditionally dependable) tractor running correctly.

Am ordering the orgiinal style resistor shown, and will install, and advise all of you as to the out come.

Have a new square coil, and wouldn't want to waste that money too..

Thanks to all that spent thier time to help, I really appreciate it.

Walter
 
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ibtallwalt
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 2:08 pm    Post subject: Re: resistor between coil and switch? Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Ok, here we are a while down the road...

Purchased the resistor, installed it, started tractor....yeah!

Only ran it a few minutes and then I shut it off, and came back a while later and started it again...whoo hoo...

Then, just to show off to the wife, how good a mechanic I am Laughing I brought her out and turned the key, and, and, and, and...

Bummer, not only, lowered my status as family mechanic but ruined my day too..

Anywho....a while later.. I had a brain fart and thought I'd check the resistor and surprise of surprises....it's bad...fifteen minute life span...

Well there goes $28 bucks...

Next, I jumped the resistor and the tractor started on first turnover...like it had in the past without the resistor in place.

Now remember, as I said, there was NO resistor on this tractor for the first year and a half or so that I owned and operated it..I did check out the coil and it's no worse for wear after all that time without the resistor and I had no issues with the tractor operation either...go figure....

I then got the bright idea to convert to IE and that cost me about 8 months of aggrivation and a couple hundred bucks....

I then took all that off and returned it to the original (blue streak) points and condensor system...should of NEVER went the IE route. The IE is now an expensive paper weight on my bench.

The only issue at the moment is that It's running rich, and a touch rough.... I don't know why, as I havent touched the carb adjustments from when it ran good the last time...

Soooo, I'm going to check on the adjustment procedure and go from there...

It ran for a couple years without the resistor, and I guess, if it worked then, and it works now...I guess it's gonna run that way in the future too..

Any input, thoughts, even good natured sarcasism...

Walter..
 
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JMOR
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 2:29 pm    Post subject: Re: resistor between coil and switch? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

You see fellows report running without a resistor from time to time on the tractor forums and I believe them. As long as you never leave ignition ON and engine stalled, the average current is really quite low........that is why they survive. Still going to run hotter though.
 
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ibtallwalt
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:00 pm    Post subject: Re: resistor between coil and switch? Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Jmor, thanks, I figure it ran for all that time, really well.... the problem came when I figured I was smarter than Henry's team... and attempted to "update" it to IE...

As for "run hotter" is that a refrerence to engine temp or actual voltage thru the coil?...

I don't use this tractor for long periods of time, it's (don't tell the wife LOL) more of a big boy toy...although, it's really nice to have around the small acreage that I have.

I believe that I may have found the rich running problem, as I had swapped out the newer carb in my attempt to find out why it wasn't starting some time back. for the Zenith that came with it...I'll replace that with the newer Marvel carb that I have, and I believe it will solve that issue...or at least eliminate one area of trouble shooting...

We'll see....

Thanks again for your time and info..


Walter
 
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JMOR
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 4:34 pm    Post subject: Re: resistor between coil and switch? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

ibtallwalt wrote:
(quoted from post at 19:00:49 08/14/13)
Jmor, thanks, I figure it ran for all that time, really well.... the problem came when I figured I was smarter than Henry's team... and attempted to "update" it to IE...

As for "run hotter" is that a refrerence to engine temp or actual voltage thru the coil?...

I don't use this tractor for long periods of time, it's (don't tell the wife LOL) more of a big boy toy...although, it's really nice to have around the small acreage that I have.

I believe that I may have found the rich running problem, as I had swapped out the newer carb in my attempt to find out why it wasn't starting some time back. for the Zenith that came with it...I'll replace that with the newer Marvel carb that I have, and I believe it will solve that issue...or at least eliminate one area of trouble shooting...

We'll see....

Thanks again for your time and info..


Walter
Not engine. Coil temperature (more Watts going into it) & it will have higher spark energy due to higher current.
 
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ibtallwalt
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 5:17 pm    Post subject: Re: resistor between coil and switch? Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Well, I swapped out the older Zenith Carb (that I had replaced last year, with an original style Marvel) with my newer Marvel carb and it seems that, that was the cause of the "rich" and "rough" running problem.

I've taken my 9ner out for a trip around the front of the property (in close proximity to the shop, JUST in case Very Happy ) and it ran just like I remembered it should and was that a satisfying drive....man what a relief after nearly 9 months of mucking with my attempt to be smarter than Henry Ford....duh ! ! with the EI junk...

Thanks for all the input and info and support, this is a great site...

Hopefully, it'll be a while before I become a begger, and in the interim... only a reader....

I'm gonna wait to tell the wife it's running till I put a couple more hours on it....you'd think, I would get smarter as I get older...naw....love her and want to impress her.....

Thanks...
 
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ibtallwalt
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 2:51 pm    Post subject: Re: resistor between coil and switch? Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Well, have run the tractor for a short while, and after working it for....maybe, 2 hours leveling some gravel for my drive area, it started to run rough and lose power...so I parked it.

Over the last week, I've just started it and let it run for a while, and it seems to start running rough and lose a bit of RPM's from time to time...after running for...say 30 to 45 minutes...

Still startsj fairly well, runs seemingly well, for a short while and then the roughness starts in...

Any ideas, or is this something to worry about ?...

Thanks, Walter
 
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JCinKY
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 5:54 pm    Post subject: Re: resistor between coil and switch? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

ibtallwalt wrote:
(quoted from post at 15:51:58 08/26/13)
Well, have run the tractor for a short while, and after working it for....maybe, 2 hours leveling some gravel for my drive area, it started to run rough and lose power...so I parked it.

Over the last week, I've just started it and let it run for a while, and it seems to start running rough and lose a bit of RPM's from time to time...after running for...say 30 to 45 minutes...

Still startsj fairly well, runs seemingly well, for a short while and then the roughness starts in...

Any ideas, or is this something to worry about ?...

Thanks, Walter


Well, leaving out that resistor may have come back to bite you.

Typical run time for a coil going bad is about an hour. Too much current overheat the coil, shorting your spark.

Let it sit, coil cools down and it runs good for about another hour. No need to jump to conclusions though. Thorough testing will be needed.
 
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ibtallwalt
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 6:25 pm    Post subject: Re: resistor between coil and switch? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

May well be the fact, but, like I had said previously.

The tractor ran for over a year without issues. Also, without a "resistor"

The issue, has come about after I had tried to outsmart Henry and upgrade to EI.

"I want to add here that I have returned the N to the original points and condensor system"

I did install a "resistor" and it lasted about 15 minutes... and was then just a terminal board for all intent and purposes.

I don't think I'm going to add another "resistor" just to waste another $28 bucks...

Any Idea of what/where I should go next ?...

Thanks, W.
 


Last edited by ibtallwalt on Tue Aug 27, 2013 6:21 am; edited 1 time in total
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