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to-30 over heat


 
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30smta
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 5:12 am    Post subject: to-30 over heat Reply to specific post Reply with quote

my to was a great trctor for the irst 15 years we owne it but the last 15 years we been through 3 used heads and 2 broken blocks. are there any good places to get long blocks? latley it has started to over heat slowly climing over 230. checked head gasket, pump, raidator still 190-200 at bottom. installed new thremostat. i do know this block is broken to but it not leaking water in the oil yet. good compression. 80/20 mix antifreeze, tested raidator only at 10-30 psi but i have a 4 psi cap. any ideas why the over heat?
 
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Tony in Mass.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 5:34 am    Post subject: Re: to-30 over heat Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Way off time, can run and start, but get things way too hot.
I get yelled at a lot on here, but if you don't live in the arctic, take out your thermostat and leave it out. Everything clean and clear in the system? new water pump too? Timing and thermo.
So where is the block broken? BTW, the heads you been replacing- you triple check the holes? Make sure ALL the holes line up for the passages. OH, and the absolutely correct head gaskets too.
 
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Richard L
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 5:38 am    Post subject: Re: to-30 over heat Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Have you ever cleaned the radiator fins? Air and water from the engine side toward the grill then reverse it and do it again.
 
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Jerry/MT
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 5:53 am    Post subject: Re: to-30 over heat Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I don"t know how cold it gets where you live but the correct mixture for your antifreeze is 50/50 AF/water. That will protect your engine down to -35-40F. Your should have a 7 psi cap also. The original OEM was 4 psi and that was changed later to a 7 psi cap.
If you"ve gone through that many blocks and heads there is something major wrong with the cooling system and retarded timing and overly lean fuel/air mixtures can contribute to the problem. You need to find the root cause of this problem. Is your radiator blocked internally? Is the air side restriced with dirt and chaff, etc?
 
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Tom Bowman
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 6:50 am    Post subject: Re: to-30 over heat Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Tony in Mass. wrote:
(quoted from post at 08:34:33 10/15/13) BTW, the heads you been replacing- you triple check the holes? Make sure ALL the holes line up for the passages. OH, and the absolutely correct head gaskets too.


I don't mean to hijack the thread, BUT, regarding the holes lining up for the passages: on the TO-20, coolant passages in the head look like "smiley-faces", but they line up with a single round hole in the block.

And, a large, oval-shaped oil passage in the block lines up with two small round holes in the head.

The head and the block are both labeled "Z120", so I'm sure they're the right parts, but it still looks funny.

Is there a reason for the different size/shapes?

The Fel-Pro 7558B head gasket has the "smiley-face" hole for the coolant passage, and the large, oval-shaped hole for the oil passage.

Here are some old pictures of my dirty block and head, to show what I'm talking about:

 
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30smta
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 4:00 pm    Post subject: Re: to-30 over heat Reply to specific post Reply with quote

thanks for the responds. i checked the timing was about 10 so i set it to max 30-32. settings on the carb screws are real close. looked at plugs, no heavy soot,clean. diff plug help? D18y are in it? we we went with the heavier af/water and 4 psi cap when one of the other blocks started leaking.. never had a problem with cooling before. never had a thermo in it eather till this spring. again tonight when it started to overheat, i couldn't tuch the top of the rad but the bottom was cold. how do i test the flow? can they be gotten cheaper than $250?
 
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Jerry/MT
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 4:43 pm    Post subject: Re: to-30 over heat Reply to specific post Reply with quote

How are you setting the timing? It should be 6BTDC @ 400 rpm(low idle).
 
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30smta
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 4:50 pm    Post subject: Re: to-30 over heat Reply to specific post Reply with quote

so the 10* was closer. book i have said to set flywheel 30, hold till points stared to open but mine has been eletronic so? I will move to the 6* and try again. what raditior would be better? heavier or lighter? 5 or 8 or 12 fins per inch?
 
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Jason S.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 5:04 pm    Post subject: Re: to-30 over heat Reply to specific post Reply with quote

What kind of book do you have? It's no wonder you had problems. Even 10 is too much, because you have to remember there is around 26 degrees of mechanical advance in the distributor so if you set the base timing at 10 that would be 36 degrees total which is too much and 30 base plus 26 comes out to 56 which will blow the bottom end out of the block. Your trying to ignite the fuel when the piston is at the bottom of the stroke. Get a timing light and make sure the tractor is warmed up and idling at 400 rpms. Anymore than that and the distributor will start advancing the timing. Shine the timing light in the hole in the bell housing and set it to 6 degrees. That simple. Doesn't matter if it's electronic ignition or not.
 
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miner09
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 5:29 pm    Post subject: Re: to-30 over heat Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Strong anti-freeze mixture will boil. Like Jerry said 50/50. The water brings the boiling point down. I would check anti-freeze.
 
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30smta
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 4:16 am    Post subject: Re: to-30 over heat Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I'll move it down, i was going off my i/t manual. can any one tell me the diff on radiators? 5 or 8 or 12 fins per/in how to tell a good from cheap? is there any good test for the water pump? i doesnt leak, and the bearings feel good.
 
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Jason S.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 5:06 am    Post subject: Re: to-30 over heat Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Fins or tubes? Fins are what is on the outside of the radiator and don"t have any effect on the cooling it"s the tubes behind the fins that matter. If you want a good radiator get one from Agco. You will pay more but you will get a better fitting and lasting radiator. If you have an original radiator you could have it recored. The cheap aftermarket radiators are just that....cheap!! They don"t last long and don"t fit well. If the bearings are tight in the water pump and there isn"t any water coming out of the weep hole then it should be good, but I have seen cases where the impeller came loose on the shaft which in that case the pump would seem good but when running the impeller would hardly spin. Have you tried flushing the motor and radiator? Btw...always run with a thermostat...without one all your getting is increased fuel consumption and increased wear on the engine.
 
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Jerry/MT
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 8:12 am    Post subject: Re: to-30 over heat Reply to specific post Reply with quote

If you are over advanced with the timing your are probably getting a lot of ignition "knock" and that can severely damage the engine and cause it to run hot.
If you don"t know how to time the engine, look in the archives. I"ve written a simple procedure numerous times in there. If you can"t find it, I"ll post it again.
 
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oldmisterbill
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:58 am    Post subject: Re: to-30 over heat Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Tom I'm not sure why they cast it like that.Maybe because it was easier to cast it that way ,maybe because it would allow more water surface area to transfer the heat.

As for the over heating - after so many repairs a good inspection would be in order. Especially checking the surface of the head with the block to check for perfect flatness. Cracks? Rust crud.
Does it build pressure B4 it gets warm (sign of gasket , crack, compression leak). 30 yeqrs ago a customer bought a problem engine to me it was over heating & nobody could ix it , nor find the problem. I lost my confidence in radiator "sniffers" (a chemical test to check for exhaust gas in the coolant)over that one.I couldn't find it either ,but it was steaming slightly out the exaust engine - no leak.n On a hunch -It was a v6 I pulled the intake and head replaced the gaskets (after checking the surface) and it was fixed. I never found the exact leak ( probably very tiny ) but it was fixed. My point is an over heating problem can be caused by so many variabkes - BE VERY thorough in your inspections.
 


Last edited by oldmisterbill on Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:59 am; edited 1 time in total
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Tony in Mass.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 5:36 am    Post subject: Re: to-30 over heat Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thinking about this thread the other day reminded me of the old joke from that woodworker on TV. After 3 new heads and 5 new handles, it's still grandpa axe!
2 heads? 2 blocks? You don't even have any of the same engine!
So, radiator, distributor, manifolds are... there from the first 'engine' that broke from overheading? You don't even have the same tractor anymore, your heat comes from something wrong with just plain bolt on parts...
 
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