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Bill hook will not release knot after making it.

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Shealray
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:16 am    Post subject: Bill hook will not release knot after making it. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Bill hook will not release knot after making it.

My Newholand 68 square baler makes the knot, but grabs a little of the end by clamping down on it. The bill hook clamps enough twine so it will not release the knot. It is like the knot is not getting pushed off the bill hook fast enough and it is getting caught by the bill hook in the closed position. Almost like a timing issue?
Bill hook is smooth the clamp is holding the very end of the knot.

Just the knoter on the side close to the knotter brake.

Thanks for the help
 
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RayP(MI)
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:33 am    Post subject: Re: Bill hook will not release knot after making it. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

First thing to check is that there is no roughness
on billhook assembly - polish with very fine emery
cloth... Check to see that wiper/knife arm is
making proper contact with heel of billhook for
entire swipe of the arm. Make sure arm is
completing the entire swipe clear past the
billhook end. Make sure the hook assembly has
enough space to allow the twine ends to slide out
and under. Is twine tension too tight such that
the twine is not being pulled too tight around
billhook assy in the knotting cycle. Check entire
twine path for smooth flow of twine from ball in
box clear through to the knotter. Check twine
fingers for proper travel in their cycle.

Did I miss anything, guys?
 
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Shealray
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:49 am    Post subject: Re: Bill hook will not release knot after making it. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

RayP(MI) wrote:
(quoted from post at 07:33:00 11/11/13) First thing to check is that there is no roughness
on billhook assembly - polish with very fine emery
cloth... Check to see that wiper/knife arm is
making proper contact with heel of billhook for
entire swipe of the arm. Make sure arm is
completing the entire swipe clear past the
billhook end. Make sure the hook assembly has
enough space to allow the twine ends to slide out
and under. Is twine tension too tight such that
the twine is not being pulled too tight around
billhook assy in the knotting cycle. Check entire
twine path for smooth flow of twine from ball in
box clear through to the knotter. Check twine
fingers for proper travel in their cycle.

Did I miss anything, guys?


How can I set the baler up to simulate hay in it without putting it in the baler? I am guessing I have been hand turn the baler by flywheel so I can see the motion of the knotter. What I have done is set this baler up as a station without moving. Using my ford 850 tractor in neutral low as I can get it to turn the baler and pitch have in it from my big round bale. It works good made some 35 lb bales I could handle without outgoing in the field to pick them up. I do not want to put hay in the baler to test the knotter.
 
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Al BAker
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:52 am    Post subject: Re: Bill hook will not release knot after making it. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Try loosening the spring pressure on the bill hook. Only turn it a flat or two at a time. Run a few bales and see what happens. Check the wipper arm and see if its travel is the same as the side that works correctly. I have seen the wipper arm get sprung a little and not wipe the knott off the bill hook. Check the bushing in the wiper arm to see if it is sloppy.Funny how something can work well for years then one day need readjusting, but it sometimes happens.
 
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RayP(MI)
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 7:16 am    Post subject: Re: Bill hook will not release knot after making it. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Probably not going to test well without hay. Will
tangle up the twine. (ask how I know) You can trip
the knotter after a partial bale forms, and then
have another person turn flywheel slowly as you
watch the tieing cycle. Even at idle tractor will turn it too fast to see what's going on.
 
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Shealray
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 7:20 am    Post subject: Re: Bill hook will not release knot after making it. Reply to specific post Reply with quote


If waper arm needs adjusting do I hit it with a hammer or use a pry bar.

Do you have a way of simulating hay to test knotter? I do not want to run hay through getting late in the season.
 
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Shealray
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 7:24 am    Post subject: Re: Bill hook will not release knot after making it. Reply to specific post Reply with quote


OK guess I will make a small bale and hand rotate with fly wheel. I have done this. The knot is being made and moved off the bill. Bill is catching the very tail and clamping on it.
What do you think?
 
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Longmeadow farm
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 9:24 am    Post subject: Re: Bill hook will not release knot after making it. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

9 times out of 10 it is the wiper arm. they get a little worn or bent
and don't clean the twine off the hook. If you haven'r adjusted the
bill hook spring I would suggest checking the wiper. To test I
always loosened the knotter frame and rotated the frame upward
checking the wiper clearance. It should drag ever so slightly across
the bottom of the bill hook. Check your manual..it should give you
the "clearance". I've always had JD square balers..now switched to
big round.. but that is what I did in the shop every winter.
 
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JRSutton
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Location: Sutton, MA

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 9:32 am    Post subject: Re: Bill hook will not release knot after making it. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

do yourself a favor and open up 3 or 4 bales of hay and just throw them into the baler while you run it at full speed.

Trying to do it by hand is an exercise in futility. Yes, it's a good way to catch an obvious timing problem, but when it comes to issues like you're having, the knotters are going to work differently at speed an under tension. Best to adjust and test under real world conditions.

Only "trick" is to kick the knotters early - make half sized bales so you don't have to wait forever.

It'll take at least three bales, four or five would be better. You'll lose a lot on the ground, and you'll probably be at it for MANY cycles, the hay keeps getting crunched and mutilated - so you need a lot of extra to consistently churn out test bale after test bale.
 
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tomturkey
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 9:53 am    Post subject: Re: Bill hook will not release knot after making it. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

To check the knotter action without hay, this is what I did. Cut a 1x2 board a couple inches narrower than bale width, Cut two kerfs for the twine to lay in, Trip the knotter, roll it thru the needles laying the twine in the cord holder. Now take the board you made hook it behind the twine and take a bungee cord and pull it toward the end of the chute and secure the bungees. Now take a 2x4 of coorect width and pull twine to the bottom of chute below knooters just as if it were a bale just completed. .secure the 2x then trip the knotter. Of course it is better to have someone else turn the flywhell so you can watch the whole knotter operation. After the knotter is done you should be able to pull your little loops of twine from the bill hooks. This was the only way I could run mine thru a cycle with out the twine getting all tangled up. I wish you well. gobble
 
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Longmeadow farm
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:03 am    Post subject: Re: Bill hook will not release knot after making it. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I guess I didn't make myself clear. By rotating the knotter frame
upwards after removing the lower frame bolts, you will engage the
wiper arm in the knotter "wheel" or what ever it is called. This
"engagement' will then move the wiper arm across the lower end of
the bill hook. This is very easy to do and doesn't require the
gymnastics suggested. In addition a visual inspection will let you
know if you have worn parts and a small scale will allow you to
adjust your bill hook tension properly. I never ran hay though my
baler while repairing/adjusting/timing the knotter mechanism, as it
is not necessary.
 
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Shealray
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Bill hook will not release knot after making it. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Longmeadow Farm wrote:
(quoted from post at 12:03:15 11/11/13) I guess I didn't make myself clear. By rotating the knotter frame
upwards after removing the lower frame bolts, you will engage the
wiper arm in the knotter "wheel" or what ever it is called. This
"engagement' will then move the wiper arm across the lower end of
the bill hook. This is very easy to do and doesn't require the
gymnastics suggested. In addition a visual inspection will let you
know if you have worn parts and a small scale will allow you to
adjust your bill hook tension properly. I never ran hay though my
baler while repairing/adjusting/timing the knotter mechanism, as it
is not necessary.


OK lesson 101 in adjustment to knotter. Do you have picture of where to place the scale and how much tension is correct? Can you tell me what type of scale and where to place it?
Thank you
 
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old
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Location: Lake of the Ozarks area of MO

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Bill hook will not release knot after making it. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

On my NH271 when that happens the twine knife is dull or the arm is not close enough to the bill hook to push the knot off as it should
 
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Shealray
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Bill hook will not release knot after making it. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

old wrote:
(quoted from post at 13:49:38 11/11/13) On my NH271 when that happens the twine knife is dull or the arm is not close enough to the bill hook to push the knot off as it should


Hey good to hear from you we liked the pole bean idea and will use it in our garden. Side note. I am looking for my mom blood realitive

I will sharpen the twine knife and see if the arm is to far away.

I am looking for my mom blood relatives. My mom died a few years ago, but she would have been around 86 or 87 today. When she was a little girl she was placed the states children’s home located in Carrollton Missouri between the years of 1929-1932. Maupins took her from the Children’s home and never officially adopted her they also brought my mom brother Raymond with her.
Her name was Florence Anderson her mom was of Native American decent last name Yowell.
I never had a birth certificate for her and she always said I was Native American. I thought the Yowell
Family lived around the Lake of the Ozarks. Maybe you have heard of them. Hope you do not mind me asking.
 
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tomturkey
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Bill hook will not release knot after making it. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Gymnastics, sorry I'm just a dumb city kid who never baled any hay til a couple years ago. Did'nt know a bill hook from a bilford, did'nt know a cordholder from a cord of wood. While I can read very well and have pretty good comprehension, the manual did not put a good picture in my head. I needed to WATCH it do what it does to better understand how it all works. For me simple is usually better. And my gymnastics did just that. gobble
 
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