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Get that crap out of your tractor MMO?

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POPGUN
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:37 pm    Post subject: Get that crap out of your tractor MMO? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I read a post on oil and MMO and one reply said get that crap out of your tractor. Why? It is a wonderful product. I have never heard a harsh word about before now. Ny daughter in laws brother is petro engineer and said it is about 80% mineral oil and stoddard solvent. I use it in gas and crank case.It smells sweet like aircraft hyd. fluid .
 
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Royse
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 6:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Get that crap out of your tractor MMO? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

It is a fine product that can help free up rings, valves etc.
The complaint on that post was low oil pressure.
MMO being thin will lower oil pressure.
So removing it and replacing it with good oil was recommended.
 
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old
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 6:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Get that crap out of your tractor MMO? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Ya and for half the cost you can use ATF and it does the same thing just does not smell as good. If I remember right the post talking bout that MMO the guy used a lot in his oil and was then in turn having problem with low oil pressure which would make sense since MMO will thin the oil a whole lot
 
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TheOldHokie
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 6:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Get that crap out of your tractor MMO? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

POPGUN wrote:
(quoted from post at 21:37:21 11/13/13) I read a post on oil and MMO and one reply said get that crap out of your tractor. Why? It is a wonderful product. I have never heard a harsh word about before now. Ny daughter in laws brother is petro engineer and said it is about 80% mineral oil and stoddard solvent. I use it in gas and crank case.It smells sweet like aircraft hyd. fluid .


That was my quote.

MMO is 20% Stoddard solvent mixed with 80% light napthenic base mineral oil and contains a mild EP anti-wear additive package. It also contains oil of wintergreen to make it smell nice and red dye to make it look pretty. It has a viscosity of 2.6 cSt @100C. To put that in perspective here are the MINIMUM viscosities for the various grades of engine oil:

SAE 0W - 3.8 cSt
SAE 5W - 3.8 cSt
SAE 10W - 4.1 cSt
SAE 20W - 5.6 cSt
SAE 25W - 9.3 cSt
SAE 20 - 5.6 cSt
SAE 30 - 9.3 cSt
SAE 40 - 12.5 cSt
SAE 50 - 16.3 cSt

As you can see MMO is lighter than the lightest grade of engine oil the SAE has defined and that should tell you something about it's suitability as an engine lubricant. In smaller quantities MMO in the crankcase is probably harmless but mixed 5:1 it reduces the viscosity of your engine oil by a full grade or more. Do you think that is a good or bad thing? Ask your daughter in law's petro engineer brother if he thinks it is a good or bad thing. Ask him if he makes it a practice to use an oil in his $30K personal automobile that is a grade (or more) lighter than what the owner's manual says to use.

I am not a petro engineer but I KNOW that using an oil that is a grade (or more) lighter than the OEM recommended grade will:
  1. Reduce the oil film thickness inside your engine's main, rod, and camshaft bearings.
  2. Expose your engine to increased bearing wear
  3. And ultimately it will shorten the engine life

MMO in the crankcase serves little if any useful purpose and in those proportions almost surely does more damage than good.

TOH
 


Last edited by TheOldHokie on Wed Nov 13, 2013 6:32 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Bob
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 6:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Get that crap out of your tractor MMO? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

IMHO, MMO DOES do ONE good thing.. it enriches the bank accounts of those who make it, distribute it, and retail it.

Oh, yeah, and it STINKS!

Ever got some of that stuff on your hands? It has to WEAR off, 'cuz there's no skin-safe product that will get it off of you!
 
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 6:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Get that crap out of your tractor MMO? Reply to specific post Reply with quote


I looked it up once and found that MMO, 80% mineral oil, is a waste by product of oil production. Getting paid for waste is always a good thing, right?
 
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 7:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Get that crap out of your tractor MMO? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

All my antennae tell me that MMO is bogus, but it just seems to work for what it is best at, unsticking rings, so I use it. I've produced several genuine miracle cures with it.

I have seen half a dozen analyses of MMO over the years, all of them claiming to be the real thing, and contradictory to the others. Either the makeup changes frequently, or the various ingredients answer to several different names, or maybe it just isn't that easy to do an analyses of a mix of different oils.
 
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 12:17 am    Post subject: Re: Get that crap out of your tractor MMO? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I had no idea how important MMO was till I posted this and looked it up myself. It was used a lot during the big war it was used in vehicles,ships, pre-oil for aircraft it kept jets in carbs clean. It improves compression and reduces blow-by. Is a gas stabilizer and upper cylinder lube.Used in air tool and fire arms. Been around since 1923 and was was one of many inventions that the inventor had. That sweet smell I like is the smell of success no doubt!
 
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:18 am    Post subject: Re: Get that crap out of your tractor MMO? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I have used MMO for years in gasoline of garden tractors and farm tractor.I used it my IH truck in every oil change if I didn't the engine valve lifters would make a lot noise until it warmed up. Also mixed it with with 10 weight oil and soaked pistons and rings on a over haul and put about 5 table spoons on top of piston and let it set several days before starting engine.
 
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Ultradog MN
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:42 am    Post subject: Re: Get that crap out of your tractor MMO? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I'm no fan of most snake oils. I think that the best that most of them can claim is they do no herm.
But MMO in my opinion is not snake oil. I think it does a better job than anything else for freeing up stuck rings and pistons.
I will continue to use it and consider I'm getting good value despite what it's naysayers and the 'experts' say.
 
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TheOldHokie
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:13 am    Post subject: Re: Get that crap out of your tractor MMO? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

kylemorley wrote:
(quoted from post at 23:59:23 11/13/13) All my antennae tell me that MMO is bogus, but it just seems to work for what it is best at, unsticking rings, so I use it. I've produced several genuine miracle cures with it.

I have seen half a dozen analyses of MMO over the years, all of them claiming to be the real thing, and contradictory to the others. Either the makeup changes frequently, or the various ingredients answer to several different names, or maybe it just isn't that easy to do an analyses of a mix of different oils.


Like any engine oil product the formulation has changed with technology. This breakdown and description is from 2010:

70% Light Aromatic Oil (Pale Oil) - a Naphthenic Oil, so while it oxidizes faster than a Paraffinic oil, it does clean and dissolve sludge and carbon well and cleans up after itself from any oxidation. serves as base oil as well. [Naphthenic oils have more solvency and are more polar (they are attracted to metal more), but oxidize faster.

29% Mineral Spirits - Cleans Varnish very well. General cleaner. Also acts as an antioxidant.

38 parts per million (ppm) Boron - AW/EP agent, friction reducer, antioxidant

900 ppm Phosporous - AW/EP agent

1/2% 1, 2 ortho-Dichlorobenzene - EP agent as it interacts with Iron to form an Iron chloride barrier under any ZDDP or other AW additives. Also very good cleaner/solvent, and friction reducer

1/4% 1, 4 para-Dichlorobenzene - EP agent as it interacts with Iron to form an Iron chloride barrier under any ZDDP or other AW additives. Also very good cleaner/solvent, and friction reducer

I will add the following. Keep in mind that additives are a total sum game. So while MMO has 900 PPM Phosphorous and 38 PPM Boron the regular oil that you are removing has about the same if not more along with a lot of other essential additives. MMO has no calcium or magnesium for example which are common detergents used in engine oil at around 2000 PPM. These types of additives are LOST when you substitute MMO.

The dichlorobenzenes are a plus on the wear protection side and excellent detergents. But the chlorine component in them makes them a source of harmful acidic (HCL) by products of combustion which is why they are not used in conventional motor oil formulations. The chlorine content is rather small so used in moderation for short time treatment of a problem like sticky rings, valves, or lifters they are probably not harmful.

On its own MMO is a good chlorinated engine cleaner but a very poor engine oil. Used in SMALL quantities as an engine oil additive it is harmless and may be effective at dissolving varnish and freeing sticky or dirty components. Mixed in large propotions with regular engine oil and used for extended drain intervals it dilutes the oil viscosity in much the same way fuel contamination dilutes it, it contributes to the formation of corrosion producing acids, and it displaces and depletes the very robust additive package in the regular oil you are removing. The net sum at 5:1 mix ratio is almost surely negative.

Just to make it a bit clearer I have include a Virgin Oil Analysis of MMO and Rotella T6 engine oil below. What is in the MMO (top table) that is NOT in the Rotella T6 (bottom table)? And what is in the Rotella that is not in the MMO?


JMIO,

TOH




 


Last edited by TheOldHokie on Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:37 am; edited 4 times in total
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:12 am    Post subject: Re: Get that crap out of your tractor MMO? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I doubt that they use oil of wintergreen.they use a chemical that I cant spell right.I put about 2 ounces of MMO in the gas tank of my Ford tractor.The gas shutoff valve got so hard to turn it took a big screwdriver to shut the gas off.It eased off after about a year but now the O ring is gone.The MMO swelled the O ring up and then dissolved it.The valve gave no trouble for 22 years.Ive posted this often on this forum and it brings replies from a bunch of nut who defend MMO.A friend bought a Farm All A that was pumping oil.It would blow smoke rings if it idled for a few minutes.Oil was leaking by the spark plug gaskets.The plugs would foul with oil.The oil was filthy and thin so I changed the oil.The oil pumping eased up but was still bad.The engine had very good compression.I figured the engine would have to be opened for new rings.I did put a pint of MMO in the oil.I took the tractor raking hay.The smoking eased up after a few hours.Jay Used the tractor thru the summer, the smoke rings stopped.His son in law changed the oil in the fall along with a new oil filter.Jay sold the A and bought a Ford 8n.I used MMO as a last resort as it helped the 50 buck cars we used to buy in the 50s.MMO makes a good penetrating oil and air tool oil but thats all I use it for now.
 
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TheOldHokie
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:10 am    Post subject: Re: Get that crap out of your tractor MMO? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

36 coupe wrote:
(quoted from post at 09:12:42 11/14/13) I doubt that they use oil of wintergreen.they use a chemical that I cant spell right.


Methyl salicylate perhaps? It is an organic ester also known as Oil of Wintergreen....

TOH
 
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:30 am    Post subject: Re: Get that crap out of your tractor MMO? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

TheOldHokie wrote:
(quoted from post at 05:13:21 11/14/13)
kylemorley wrote:
(quoted from post at 23:59:23 11/13/13) All my antennae tell me that MMO is bogus, but it just seems to work for what it is best at, unsticking rings, so I use it. I've produced several genuine miracle cures with it.

I have seen half a dozen analyses of MMO over the years, all of them claiming to be the real thing, and contradictory to the others. Either the makeup changes frequently, or the various ingredients answer to several different names, or maybe it just isn't that easy to do an analyses of a mix of different oils.


Like any engine oil product the formulation has changed with technology. This breakdown and description is from 2010:

70% Light Aromatic Oil (Pale Oil) - a Naphthenic Oil, so while it oxidizes faster than a Paraffinic oil, it does clean and dissolve sludge and carbon well and cleans up after itself from any oxidation. serves as base oil as well. [Naphthenic oils have more solvency and are more polar (they are attracted to metal more), but oxidize faster.

29% Mineral Spirits - Cleans Varnish very well. General cleaner. Also acts as an antioxidant.

38 parts per million (ppm) Boron - AW/EP agent, friction reducer, antioxidant

900 ppm Phosporous - AW/EP agent

1/2% 1, 2 ortho-Dichlorobenzene - EP agent as it interacts with Iron to form an Iron chloride barrier under any ZDDP or other AW additives. Also very good cleaner/solvent, and friction reducer

1/4% 1, 4 para-Dichlorobenzene - EP agent as it interacts with Iron to form an Iron chloride barrier under any ZDDP or other AW additives. Also very good cleaner/solvent, and friction reducer

I will add the following. Keep in mind that additives are a total sum game. So while MMO has 900 PPM Phosphorous and 38 PPM Boron the regular oil that you are removing has about the same if not more along with a lot of other essential additives. It has no calcium or magnesium for example which are common detergents used in engine oil at around 2000 PPM. These types of additives are LOST when you substitute MMO.

The dichlorobenzenes are a plus on the wear protection side and excellent detergents. But the chlorine component in them makes them a source of harmful acidic (HCL) by products of combustion which is why they are not used in conventional motor oil formulations. The chlorine content is rather small so used in moderation for short time treatment of a problem like sticky rings, valves, or lifters they are probably not harmful.

On its own MMO is a good chlorinated engine cleaner but a very poor engine oil. Used in SMALL quantities as an engine oil additive it is harmless and may be effective at dissolving varnish and freeing sticky or dirty components. Mixed in large propotions with regular engine oil and used for extended drain intervals it dilutes the oil viscosity in much the same way fuel contamination dilutes it, it contributes to the formation of corrosion producing acids, and it displaces and depletes the very robust additive package in the regular oil you are removing. The net sum at 5:1 mix ratio is almost surely negative.

JMIO,

TOH


TOH, that is an excellent description of ingredients, properties and benefits, which I am glad to see works out to pretty much zero, So those who insist on using it can keep pointing out their positives, and those who don't, the negatives, and everyone can be happy, and many have a little more money in their pockets.
 
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:35 am    Post subject: Re: Get that crap out of your tractor MMO? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I'm a firm believer in MMO,ATF,Seafoam, etc
being added to the GAS.
I like vertical exhausts, and all that carbon, black mess on the hood has to be coming from somewhere after using those in the gas. good thing to me

In the oil.....only as a flushing help on tractors where I'm too lazy to pull the pan,
dump it it,
use the tractor for a few hours, until good and hot, and then dump it and change the oil.

As far as which? I use MMO the most only because I can find
it cheaper than the other two at dollar type stores.
Works fine in my airtools too
 
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