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D4H Fuel Pressures

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N00bie
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:26 pm    Post subject: D4H Fuel Pressures Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I know this is out of your realm (not an old dozer), but you folks were so helpful in the past, I though I might see if I can impose on you again.

I believe I have a fuel issue. Kind of strange and not make a lot of sense to me.

Dozer has no power, not alot but a fair amount of black smoke. But here is the funny thing. Will run for a period of time (5 minutes or 2 hours) and then all of a sudden, loose power (no real difference in idle speed in low or high throttle), and breaking up. Eventually just stalls out. Sometimes will start up again and run fine, other times not. Today it needed ether to start and then ran okay for about 2 minutes and then loss of power, black smoke, and stalled. Did not want to start again.

Plan to do some fuel pressure testing but have no idea what they should be. Does anyone know what the fuel pressues should be, before injerctor pump and at injectors?

Thanx

PS. Yes, fuel and air filters have been changed.
 
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AJ.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:42 pm    Post subject: Re: D4H Fuel Pressures Reply to specific post Reply with quote

That sounds as if an injector nozzle is sticking,quick test slacken the four line nuts a couple of turns each,put the throttle in the stop position,protect your eyes,crank the engine over while watching the four line connections,if one of them is blowing back the nozzle is sticking,other thing if it has a turbo check it is not sized,engine stopped take off the intake pipe and use your finger to see the turbine inside is free,do not use a screwdriver or the like to avoid damage to the turbine blades,check to see no hose has collasped or is blocked.
AJ
 
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N00bie
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:00 pm    Post subject: Re: D4H Fuel Pressures Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thank you AJ
Have to fertilize a field tomorrow so may be next day before I have a chance to do anything.
Quote:
slacken the four line nuts a couple of turns each

What 4 line nuts are you talking about? 4 going into the injector, 4 going into the head? What do you mean by blow back? They will (do) spray fuel.
 
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AJ.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:19 am    Post subject: Re: D4H Fuel Pressures Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Ya the 4 going into the head or on top of the pump if easier,what you are looking for is if a nozzle is stuck open the compression from the engine will leak back past the nozzle and come out around the line connection.
AJ
 
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Old Magnet
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:04 am    Post subject: Re: D4H Fuel Pressures Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Last time we went through this and about drove us nuts turned out to be an intermittent malfunction/sticking of the solenoid shutoff valve on the injection pump.
 
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:20 pm    Post subject: Re: D4H Fuel Pressures Reply to specific post Reply with quote

AJ. wrote:
(quoted from post at 05:19:25 11/21/17) Ya the 4 going into the head or on top of the pump if easier,what you are looking for is if a nozzle is stuck open the compression from the engine will leak back past the nozzle and come out around the line connection.
AJ


I dont know.
Video 1.
With throttle in the off position, only the last injector does not have fuel coming out. Seems fuel should be off and not running to any of them?

Video 2[url]
Took ether to get it to start. Bleeding it at the injector pump, machine ran good for about 5 min afterwards, then started breaking up again and puffing black smoke. In all of the, if I just cracked the line, I could get fuel to leak out rather than blow out, except for injector 2 (second from the left). It would always blow back even at a slight crack of the line.[url]
[url][/url][url][/url]
 
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AJ.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 6:15 pm    Post subject: Re: D4H Fuel Pressures Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thanks for the video,I did not see any blow back that would indicate a nozzle was stuck when you cranked it over having said that it is not responding very even when you crack a line,the tone don't change much on the first three cylinders compared with four,that may be due to you not opening the nuts enough,what is the history of the injectors like hrs done,you sure the fuel system is clean and has full pressure,what's the engine breather look like,check it for blow back.
AJ
 
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N00bie
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 6:48 pm    Post subject: Re: D4H Fuel Pressures Reply to specific post Reply with quote


I need to go back and video again or at least listen better. Once you bleed the injector pump it will run fine for awhile. Makes me believe the problem is in this area. I need to pay closer attention. When she (he?) starts breaking up, which line bleed stops it. Not sure but think it was cylinder 3. Will get back on this.

Have no idea how old the injectors are. I bought this dozer used and have only had it for about 6-months and maybe put in 100 hrs.

Quote:
sure the fuel system is clean and has full pressure

Have not put a guage on it but pumps out of the fuel filter and from the video you can see the pressure coming out of the injector pump.
Fuel clean? I would have said yes yesterday as it is the same fuel I use in my tractor. Not so sure anymore. Today while feeding the beasts, the tractor started sputtering and lost all power for a minute or two. Was fine after whatever it was that passed but does raise the question. May just drain all the fuel out of the dozer just to be sure - only has about 10 gallons and can always use it for brush burning.

[quote]what's the engine breather look like,check it for blow back[quote]
Breather is fine. Took it out to clean when I changed the fuel and air filter but put it back in without cleaning it as it was clean.

Will try to get out there tomorrow and bleed the injectors while it is sputtering. Kind of hard to loosen those lines and hold a cell phone video!

Thanks again for your input
 
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RodinNS
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 9:26 am    Post subject: Re: D4H Fuel Pressures Reply to specific post Reply with quote

What engine do you have? I've got a 3204T in mine which uses that pump... but it's a different configuration. On mine at least, there is an
inlet filter where the line comes from the tank into the transfer pump. This filter is inline, inside a fitting... so you have to take the
lines off and remove the filter/adapter.
The behavior you describe is consistent with the screen being plugged on mine... so I'd take a close look around for that first.

Rod
 
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 6:00 pm    Post subject: Re: D4H Fuel Pressures Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CVPost-RodInNS wrote:
(reply to post at 10:26:07 11/24/17)


It is a 3204 but it only has a single fuel filter. I know the one you are talking about, buried in the right front under the ejector pump. Not present in the 9DB1xxx serials.

I am just puzzled with this. Listen and look at the engine (Video). Looks and sounds like a fuel issue? It ran like this for awhile as I played with the injector pump oulets, trying to see if loosening one or another would make a difference. It didn't. BUT, afterwards, it did settle abit and smoked less (Video2).

Then when I was done and doing nothing, it just quit. Like I had turned a key off (not like it throttling down, but very sudden).

I opened the injector lines and they were pressurized with fuel and was was the injector pump inlet. So what gives???

I shouldn't have to, but I have not bled the lines at the engine head. That shouldn't make a difference but might try just for giggles (although not that easy to get to or that safe with engine running).

I drained the fuel tank today. No dirt or debri and fuel looks fine. Will add "new" fuel tommorrow afternoon and see what happens but not optomistic.

Any and all thoughts welcomed and appreciated.
 
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dpendzic
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 6:47 pm    Post subject: Re: D4H Fuel Pressures Reply to specific post Reply with quote

you should have 30 psi at the filter, check if you have that little screen in the fuel line and clean it. the transfer pump has 3 little plastic check valves and if one goes bad you get very little pressure
 
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 5:19 pm    Post subject: Re: D4H Fuel Pressures Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Maybe some diagnostic progress - maybe going full circle...
There is no screen in the line. The only break in the line between the transfer pump (Pic) and the fuel filter is a connector (Pic) and I took it out just to be sure - no screen.

It took some doing, but conected a pressure guage to the injector pump inlet (Pic) as it looked easier than the fuel filter outlet. Guage read 0. Even when I got it running a bit on its own, still read 0.

There is fuel reaching the guage (Video) and coming out of the ejector pump so it shouldn't read 0. Brand new guage, so that not it.

On ther other hand, I later wasn't getting fuel coming through the guage port (Video). Engine wont start now either so maybe we got a terminal failure.

Will try to get a reading from other locations, like maybe directly out of the transfer pump if I can or into the fuel filter?
Any way to check the transfer pump?
That could be an issue??
 
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RodinNS
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 7:50 pm    Post subject: Re: D4H Fuel Pressures Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The screen is in the line from the tank where it enters the pump, not the line between pump and filter. It's the lower line in your first
pic, inside the larger adapter. If there's no screen in there... there should be.
Also verify that you have fuel flowing by gravity to that screen. If not.. trace that back to the source.

Rod
 
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dpendzic
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 7:57 pm    Post subject: Re: D4H Fuel Pressures Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I have a 3204 on my D3B, I tapped into the bleeder valve on top of the fuel filter to hook up my pressure gage. You should get gravity feed to the top of the filter and much more flow when spinning the engine. Your transfer pump looks identical to mine, thats where i found one of those little plastic check valves bad.
 
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 6:34 am    Post subject: Re: D4H Fuel Pressures Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Been in bed sick which is why no response - will try to drag myself out there today.
Quote:
You should get gravity feed to the top of the filter

I do get gravity feed from everywhere I have opened ther line. In fact, from the line feeding the injector pump, I had to reconnect it or i think I would be out of fuel by morning. Dozer facing downhill surely plays into that. Will check top of filter and put a guage there.

Quote:
found one of those little plastic check valves bad

How can I check this? Based on the low pressure going into the injector pump, thinking could be transfer pump?

Thanx
 
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