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Can't get 1953 Super A to charge

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Kingmopar
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Can't get 1953 Super A to charge Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Nope....unplugged the GM connector on the side of the alternator, used a jumper to touch #1 to the BAT terminal on the alternator...still nothing. Naturally, have been trying to do a bunch of reading on this
subject. One forum says use a 1N5408 diode back to the switch and even a aftermarket place sells a "kit", with this same diode, but a old school warning light, will do..the same thing. Some other rodder
forum, state that one should use anywhere from a 50 to 300 ohm resistor(to simulate an old school warning light) to prevent damage to the rectifier circuit of the alternator...which the forums and diagram
here, say use a 10 ohm, 2 or higher watt resistor...which mine is 11 ohm(freebie)and rated at 3 watt. Apparently, this has worked for some folks, but not so far, for me. I was like...what the heck...50 to
300 ohms for a tiny warning light?? I know that as a light, "makes light"...it's resistance changes and goes up. I had an extra 70's Mopar A body instrument clusters around...but...I couldn't get a reading
on my ohm meter on any of the bulbs, in their holder...well, they are 57 years old, so that was a bust, probably toast anyway, or my meter is crap. I did find that most GM clusters of the late 70's and
early 80's used a 194 bulb, used in a holder, that twist locked on the back of the circuit board, on the cluster, just like my Mopar cluster. Not sure if bulbs are the same. The spec on this bulb(194) says
it is rated at 3.8 watts/14 volts, and is of 2 candle power. I found a Ohms Law Calculator on line: http://www.bowdenshobbycircuits.info/ohmslaw.htm Low and behold...putting in this bulbs needed (2)
specs...basically comes out to basically 51 ohms of resistance....so..."maybe"...I messed up the rectifier bridge, by using too low a resistor. I "borrowed" our optical tach to measure pulley speed...but..I
have to paint the front of the pulley flat black...place a small piece of reflective tape on the front of it...to get the proper speed of the alternator pulley at idle, and full speed to see if I am at the
alternator's working RPM range. It shouldn't be...this darn hard!!!-LOL! When I was a kid...you could go into any auto parts store..and get all grades of "warning lights", different colors, all 12 volts
with included bulb and wiring, to mount to a panel. Even lighted switches had bulbs in them....but now...that tech is long gone. Nobody makes this stuff anymore. Everything...has gone to LED and just
doesn't off the resistance needed.
 
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Bob
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Can't get 1953 Super A to charge Reply to specific post Reply with quote


You are WAAAYYYYY overthinking this with all the fuss about lamps and resistances.

1. In your first post you stated "the back of the alternator is magnetized".

I've already told you that means the alternator is excited/the rotating field is magnetized and it should be producing output from the stator through the rectifier bridge. Any change in the lamp or resistor isn't going to make ANY difference after the point the field is getting voltage and is magnetized.

2. You wrote "I messed up the rectifier bridge, by using too low a resistor".

Not a CHANCE of that... the rectifier BRIDGE isn't even involved here. The the diode trio and circuit traces in the
VR CAN be damaged by no or very low resistance in the "excite" circuit, but even 11 Ohms would limit excite current to 1.14 Amps with the battery at 12.5 Volts, which should be safe.

3. With the rotating field magnetized, if there's REALLY no charging output, the alternator is either defective or the belt is slipping, it's as simple as that!
 
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jwitty
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 5:09 am    Post subject: Re: Can't get 1953 Super A to charge Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Bob is right. Where are you measuring voltage? If you haven't been try it at the alt. I don't really like this test but remove the negative battery cable while it's running and see if it continues to charge. Don't do it for to long because that will max out the alt I believe.
 
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Kingmopar
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 8:27 am    Post subject: Re: Can't get 1953 Super A to charge Reply to specific post Reply with quote

You're right Bob...sometimes my mind gets to going, especially when something is kicking my butt and after the Autozone tech stated the alternator was good, on
their test bench...I do, have my doubts on that! I was able to get the optical tach from work, and with the 2.3 inch overdrive/ smaller pulley I purchased,
alternator pulley speed is around 1250-1300 rpm @ idle...at full throttle, it is at 3200 rpm and in my mind...that should make a "good" alternator charge. I can
attest...there is NO belt slipping. I tried to tighten up the crank to fan pulley and never could get out enough slack, while trying to hold up the fan
assembly...and tighten the nut properly....so...I rigged up my cherry picker to lift the fan assembly up till the belt was tight, tighten down...then tightened up
the belt on the alternator. I also wanted a proper "warning" light...and had hard time finding one. I finally found one at
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/VCC/5100-824/?qs=%2fha2pyFaduhmRNBD0BojNnZOFNoTPTAxRN4syLeHUBY%3d that takes the T2/T3 mini bulb.
 
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Kingmopar
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 8:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Can't get 1953 Super A to charge Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I checked it from Bat terminal to ground at max RPM...and best I could get was little over 12 volts, and that's with the smaller overdrive pulley. Removal of the + post, shuts the tractor off...which I know
you are not supposed to do..but..figured what the heck. I ordered a new 3 wire alternator this morning, from Carquest...for a 76/6 cylinder Chevy truck....before going to work. I know the owner really well.
Now that Carquest and Advance have merged...he was worried that they would make him change his Tier suppliers for things like starters, alternators, etc--but so far, they haven't pushed the issue. He said if
they did that...he was going to change over and go NAPA. He, is the only parts store, in our small little town. Have a bud who loves building old Camaros...has both a 67 as well as a 69, which both are sweet
looking cars. He kept having issues with the old style OEM alternators and voltage regulators that are supplied now, my guess...via China.. mainly overcharge issues..and boiling the battery over to the point
it would swell the battery on one of them. He would manually set them to charge at 13.5 to 14 volts...and their setting would change, over time. He just finally threw in the towel..and purchased true 1 wire
for both from NAPA...and never looked back and his issues were over. He doesn't do a lot of night driving however, but the 1 wire still puts 14 volts at the battery, if he blips the throttle at startup.
 
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Kingmopar
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:14 am    Post subject: Re: Can't get 1953 Super A to charge Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thanks Jwitty and Bob....and the rest of you folks help...Bob was right...crappy alternator, even though the alternator purchased from Autozone, passed their "3
level" test after I took it back complaining it wasn't charging.... it was still a bad. Picked up a 3 wire from Carquest this morning, put on my overdrive
pulley, and installed it. At startup, it wasn't charging, but a small blip of the throttle and she want to charging right away. 14.5 volts at the battery, even
after cutting all the lights on... and would hold that charging even after dropping back down to idle. Even the LED light is working, which is after the 11 ohm
resistor going back to the switch. It does flicker a little, but is mainly out during charging.

Now...install new battery box/battery...and start working on the hood and grill.

Again!!!...Thanks for all you'alls help!!
 
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Kingmopar
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Can't get 1953 Super A to charge Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Geeze...I thought I had this issue licked, with this second alternator. I put in my new battery box so I could drill holes in the angle brackets I made for it, placing rubber sheet on the sides and
top...installed new main cables and let the tractor sit for a couple of days(Battery left hooked up, switch off). Went to fire it up today...no charge-ran fine engine wise. Alternator would not kick on via
my amp gauge. My "bulb" type of charging lights have not arrived yet...I still had the 11 ohm resistor and LED light installed. Figured it was working great before and the light went out this time after
flickering for a little..which was normal before when everything was working and charging. I checked the back of the alternator..and it was not magnetized...removed the 2 wire side plug...and there was some
clear looking "Goo" inside the metal female connectors, inside the plastic plug... but the plastic plug wasn't melted at all. I take it, I roasted another alternator. Already removed "Goo" from inside the
plug and that made no difference.
 
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jwitty
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Can't get 1953 Super A to charge Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CVPost-Kingmopar wrote:
(quoted from post at 20:15:15 12/07/17) Geeze...I thought I had this issue licked, with this second alternator. I put in my new battery box so I could drill holes in the angle brackets I made for it, placing rubber sheet on the sides and
top...installed new main cables and let the tractor sit for a couple of days(Battery left hooked up, switch off). Went to fire it up today...no charge-ran fine engine wise. Alternator would not kick on via
my amp gauge. My "bulb" type of charging lights have not arrived yet...I still had the 11 ohm resistor and LED light installed. Figured it was working great before and the light went out this time after
flickering for a little..which was normal before when everything was working and charging. I checked the back of the alternator..and it was not magnetized...removed the 2 wire side plug...and there was some
clear looking "Goo" inside the metal female connectors, inside the plastic plug... but the plastic plug wasn't melted at all. I take it, I roasted another alternator. Already removed "Goo" from inside the
plug and that made no difference.


The stuff in the connector is probably just dielectric grease. Are you getting power to the #1 wire when switch is on?
 
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Kingmopar
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 4:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Can't get 1953 Super A to charge Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Removed the 3 wired and returned to my bud at Carquest....got a true 1 wire, and is working...so far. Guess I'll use the idiot light, to let me know when the switch is turned on...
 
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