Yesterday's Tractor Co.
Shop Now View Cart
   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 9N,2N,8N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   Traditional YT Forum ViewClassic View   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile    Log inLog in 

1020 hydraulic issues

Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next

 
Post new topic    
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
mb1020
New User


Joined: 29 Nov 2017
Posts: 13


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:39 pm    Post subject: 1020 hydraulic issues Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Hello Everyone, I am hoping someone here can help me figure out what is going on with my 1969 1020 John Deere. I've tried searching all over the web for info and just can't seem to figure it out.

Problems: Steering locks and pulls to right. Loader has poor response but operates. Rockshaft lifts, but usually needs one of the loader valves cracked open.

What I have done: Replaced main pump with a reman pump. (pump had massive shaft leak).
The Hi/low that was originally on the tractor has been removed completely (housing swapped) due to worn planetary gear.

Steering valve was rebuilt, new orings, seals, cleaned & polished valves. ( I have a separate 1020 parts tractor. The entire steering was swapped with the other unit and still has the exact same symptoms).

I have the I&T shop service manual, but not the JD manuals.

Today I hooked up a 3000PSI gauge to the plug port(destroke port) on the main hydraulic pump. The pressure read 1000psi with no hydraulics operating. Is this standby pressure? When the bucket is raised the pressure rises. I tightened the stroke valve about 1.5 turns and gained another 100 psi.

Engine running 1900 rpm.

Additionally the same gauge was attached to the loader input at the priority valve after the loader hose was disconnected. Unfortunately I did not have a cap to plug the open end of the loader input. Pressure read over 3000psi with no operation of the hydraulic functions.

I'm trying to determine if this is a priority valve problem or if something inside is leaking.

Tractor has closed center hydraulics and power steering.

Thanks,
Mark
 
Back to top
View user's profile
JDEM
Long Time User


Joined: 18 Mar 2016
Posts: 1219


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:58 pm    Post subject: Re: 1020 hydraulic issues Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Do you have the tiny little German pump or the other German pump that is twice the size? Non-splined driveshaft, correct?nd

Stand-by pressure should read over 2000 PSI. If you only have 1000 PSI, either the pump is defective or you have a massive
internal hydraulic leak. When all is as it should be, the pump makes around 2200 PSI with NO flow of oil and kind of shuts
itself off and it takes near no power to turn it.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
Tx Jim
Tractor Guru


Joined: 14 Feb 1999
Posts: 24428


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:18 pm    Post subject: Re: 1020 hydraulic issues Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Welcome to YT
If you have to move frt end loader control valve for 3 pt to raise then I suspect loader valve is an open-center not closed center valve or CC plug in valve has a blown seal.

With loader control levers in neutral remove loader valve "return hose" from tractor then place open end of return hose in open hyd filler hole behind seat. Start engine & no oil should exit open valve return hose with control levers in neutral.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
gene g
Regular


Joined: 12 Nov 2017
Posts: 34


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:14 pm    Post subject: Re: 1020 hydraulic issues Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Sounds like loader maybe plumbed in front of priority valve like Jim and JDEM said this will rob the system of more oil than the pump can create .I dont have the exact pressure for priority on this model but it should be around 1700 psi .If pressure is below this it can cause your steering problems .When you put your gauge at priority you got standby pressure because you eliminated the internal leak . This should also make 3 point and steering work much better . You might think about dropping standby before it blows another seal. Your test for standby pressure was most likely correct the pump just couldnt pump enough oil to keep up with leak in the loader valve .
 
Back to top
View user's profile
Tx Jim
Tractor Guru


Joined: 14 Feb 1999
Posts: 24428


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:07 am    Post subject: Re: 1020 hydraulic issues Reply to specific post Reply with quote


I overlooked the statement about gauge reading 3000 psi & I agree with Gene that the pressure needs to be lowered immediately before operating tractor or seals will most likely BLOW. Is your tractors serial number below or above 045199??? 1020 with SN below 045199 has open center steering.[/url]
 
Back to top
View user's profile
mb1020
New User


Joined: 29 Nov 2017
Posts: 13


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:31 am    Post subject: Re: 1020 hydraulic issues Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Thanks everyone. Ok let me answer a few questions.

late model serial # post 45199. no seperate power steering pump. Just pulled the whole thing apart so I'm pretty familiar with it. I spent a lot of time on here researching before I tackled that project.

JD 143 loader (not sure open or closed)

In the picture you can see the plumbing of the priority valve. loader line removed and gauge installed at rear of valve. Loader line is in the bucket. Not sure if this is an accurate reading with the loader line open?? 3000 PSI and seemed to be climbing. I did it fast, because I noticed it was filling the bucket, but I may have cracked the valve and the loader probably fell some filling the bucket?? I was worried the 3000 psi. gauge might pop.


The second pic is the pump housing showing the port at top center which i tapped to get the 1000/1100 reading. which is what the IT book said to do.
8 piston non splined pump. I rebuilt the original pump with all new seals (put it back together with a slightly worn shaft and it leaked like a sieve). replaced the pump with a reman but never checked the pump pressure.



As I said, after making the first check on the pump housing, I cranked up the stroke valve maybe 1.5 turns. How much difference in pressure would a turn or half turn make?

I will turn this back down. My plan right now is to rehook up the loader and put a quick coupler on the gauge. I will then check the pressure with the loader disconnected and see if steering improves. Lastly I will port the return line to the fill hole and check for fluid seepage with the loader valve in neutral.

Internal leaks are totally possible. When we removed the housing with the planetary for the high/low, we found the housing was also cracked and damaged internally. The replacement housing should have resolved this but there could be other problems in the transmission case. We originally split the tractor to check the low pressure trans pump, however that appeared to be in good working order with no signs of wear. Unfortunately, we put it back together with the rear end of the unknown parts tractor so I do not know the exact status of the pump currently in the machine. After this fix the hydraulics worked better for a little while ( more down pressure) but then the steering got worse.

I pulled the steering because someone suggested bad seals in the valve might be causing the problems. (steering locks and worse pulls to right.)
Mad However this made little difference.
The loader valve makes a lot of sense because it is the only variable that has not changed. Even the priority valve was switched out when the new rear end was put on.

Sorry the pics are turned sideways not sure why they uploaded that way, they are right on my computer??
 
Back to top
View user's profile
Tx Jim
Tractor Guru


Joined: 14 Feb 1999
Posts: 24428


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:52 am    Post subject: Re: 1020 hydraulic issues Reply to specific post Reply with quote


To determine if FEL control valve is OC or CC reconnect pressure hose then disconnect hyd fitting(green circle) & with both levers on FEL valve in neutral start engine & no oil should exit open hose.


 
Back to top
View user's profile
gene g
Regular


Joined: 12 Nov 2017
Posts: 34


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:53 am    Post subject: Re: 1020 hydraulic issues Reply to specific post Reply with quote

If the hose in the white bucket is coming out of the filter housing , through loader valve and pumping oil into into bucket this will rob return circuit of oil needed to
supply main front pump and reduce out put . It can be plugged for testing purposes .
 
Back to top
View user's profile
JDEM
Long Time User


Joined: 18 Mar 2016
Posts: 1219


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:00 am    Post subject: Re: 1020 hydraulic issues Reply to specific post Reply with quote

If your tractor were in my shop- I would cap off the output on the pump so I know it cannot pump any flow. Then check stand-by
pressure and make sure it is around 2200 PSI. If it checks out OK this way, but drops once you hook it back into the system -
then you know you have a big internal leak somewhere.

When Deere tractors have the bigger 2.4 or 3 cube USA splined pumps an get internal leaks - the starters tend to burn up
because the engine crank over so hard. With the tiny .7 or 1.4 German pumps - sometimes even with a leak the starter can
still crank pretty well.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
mb1020
New User


Joined: 29 Nov 2017
Posts: 13


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:59 am    Post subject: Re: 1020 hydraulic issues Reply to specific post Reply with quote

There is a second (return?) hose going to a port right near the fill hole on the back of the transmission. If I remember right it comes off the left side of the loader valve just above the return going to the filter housing. Is that a filter bypass? If so what do I do with that hose to check it?
 
Back to top
View user's profile
Tx Jim
Tractor Guru


Joined: 14 Feb 1999
Posts: 24428


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:32 am    Post subject: Re: 1020 hydraulic issues Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Correct ""closed center hyd hose attachment"" for FEL control valve to tractor only requires 2(two) hoses which are pressure & return. If your tractor loader valve has 3(three) hoses attached from tractor to the control valve it attached incorrectly. Sounds as if someone installed an open-center controlled loader on a closed center tractor. See photo below that shows open-center system.


 
Back to top
View user's profile
mb1020
New User


Joined: 29 Nov 2017
Posts: 13


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 4:01 am    Post subject: Re: 1020 hydraulic issues Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thanks guys. I really appreciate all the help.
So if the loader is open center, how would I check to see if the valve is operating properly? If my understanding is correct, oil is always flowing through the third line back to the transmission?

I'm going to disconnect the pressure line today and see if that helps the steering, ect.
Also someone suggested disconnecting the return line to the filter to check for leakage in neutral. But not sure if that is possible with open center?

If valve is bad... Can I replace it with a closed center valve and do away with the open center hose all together? If so does anyone have a suggestion on a good valve for an old used tractor that won't break the bank?

Apparently there were at least three different valves used on the loader, not really 100% sure which one I have.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
Tx Jim
Tractor Guru


Joined: 14 Feb 1999
Posts: 24428


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 4:36 am    Post subject: Re: 1020 hydraulic issues Reply to specific post Reply with quote


mb1020
You can disconnect return hose on open or closed center frt end loader valve then start engine with no ill affects to determine if valve is OC or CC. As I previously stated there's no good reason for FEL valve to have 2(two) return oil hoses on a JD 1020. If your tractor has 2 return hoses then aim both hoses with open ends in a bucket & if oil comes out of either or both hoses with levers in neutral with engine running you have located part of your tractors hyd problems. If oil comes out of return hose as I think it will you need to install a CC plug(green arrow) with correct seal(key 10).


 
Back to top
View user's profile
mb1020
New User


Joined: 29 Nov 2017
Posts: 13


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 7:09 am    Post subject: Re: 1020 hydraulic issues Reply to specific post Reply with quote


So I turned down the pressure a bit. Haven't rechecked it to see where it's at.
When disconnected, oil flows out the hose coming from the side port of the valve, which is plumbed to the filter housing, no oil flows from the other hose unless the valve is cracked.

However, the oil slowed to almost a stop after a few seconds. I was getting a bit low on oil so I turned it off. But I thought it might also be starving for oil. The 1st pic is of the steel supply hoses next to the brake. They were pretty crushed when I got the tractor, but the the hydraulics seemed to work so I left them. I have a replacement for the pipe going to the oil cooler, but not the one going to the pump. It was damaged in the tractor split operation. 2nd pic. Is it possible to replace these lines with rubber? They have a weird fitting on the end that slides in the case.
Could this cause the problems?

Also I tried the steering with the loader disconnected. There was minor improvement but nothing to really brag about.


 
Back to top
View user's profile
gene g
Regular


Joined: 12 Nov 2017
Posts: 34


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 7:53 am    Post subject: Re: 1020 hydraulic issues Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Mark If you are using the line in the picture it would probably be a good idea to replace it or repair it . I have not tryed to replace it with a rubber hose, it mite
be possible . I was always told repair all known problems first . Did you look at suction screen , and replace hyd filter while you were doing trans. swap .You know JDEM
had a great way to check for internal problems with high pressure side of hyd. system.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Yesterday's Tractors Forum Index -> John Deere All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3

 
Jump to:  

TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
Fast Shipping!  Most of our stocked parts ship within 24 hours (M-Th). Expedited shipping available, just call! Most prices for parts and manuals are below our competitors. Compare our super low shipping rates! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor. We are a company you can trust and have generous return policies. Shop Online Today or call our friendly sales staff toll free (800) 853-2651. [ About Us ]

YT Home  |  Forums

Modern View Forum powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters