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1650 lift arms dropping at low rpm


 
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dnd
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:14 pm    Post subject: 1650 lift arms dropping at low rpm Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Good morning to all, finally got corn and beans off in Wisconsin!
This topic was crossed earlier this summer by someone else on this site, but here I go again. My 1650 will drop it?s three point arms when the engine rpms are below 1100, when you increase the throttle the arms raise back up. Also this spring I needed to keep the tractor rev?d up to raise the soybean drill. I remember someone mentioning that there is an elbow in the hydraulics under the seat that might be the cause as it tends to crack.

Now I have the seat off last night and am looking for the elbow.. I am sure I will need to get the hydraulic oil out but then where should I look.
Thoughts! HELP or suggestions needed.
 
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Mike(NEOhio)
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Location: Geauga County, Ohio

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:49 pm    Post subject: Re: 1650 lift arms dropping at low rpm Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The elbow is screwed into the flange of the lift cylinder on the right side. I don't think you can see it from the top. To get to it you'll have to pull the entire lift housing off, turn it over and probably take the cylinder out. Heavy and messy.
 
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Mike(NEOhio)
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:12 pm    Post subject: Re: 1650 lift arms dropping at low rpm Reply to specific post Reply with quote

While you're in there check the O-ring on the piston.
 
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larry duda
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:42 pm    Post subject: Re: 1650 lift arms dropping at low rpm Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Here's what it looks like. Mine was busted off so the 3 point didn't work at all. The dealer never said anything about it not working until I questioned them about it. I would of told them to keep it if the diesels with the 3 speed wren't so hard to find.

 
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Mike(NEOhio)
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:00 pm    Post subject: Re: 1650 lift arms dropping at low rpm Reply to specific post Reply with quote

How do they break off anyway. There's nothing in there to hit them. Do they just fatigue from the pressure. Mine was OK on the 1550.
 
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J. Schwiebert
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 7:10 pm    Post subject: Re: 1650 lift arms dropping at low rpm Reply to specific post Reply with quote

You can also have a leaking lowering valve. What happens when you raise the 3 point and shut the tractor off. Does the unit cycle? I also sent you an e-mail. j.
 
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NYOlivers
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:52 pm    Post subject: Re: 1650 lift arms dropping at low rpm Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I was one of the people who posted a similar question a few months ago about my 1600 diesel. I have a very similar issue with my tractors 3pt not lifting and implement and sinking down when tractor is shut off. I also had a steering issue with mine which I believe I have solved, with the help and knowledge of Mr.Schwiebert. In the next week or two I am also going to tackle removing the hydraulic unit off my tractor to determine the problem with my three point. As far as the steering problem, after doing some testing I swapped the flow divider from another tractor and that seemed to solve the problem thus far. Just the other day I finally took the divider valve apart to check it out, and I found a whole bunch of blue RTV inside it! I am afraid of where else it is in the hydraulic system, I guess Ill find out when I get into it. I really wish people knew the correct use for certain products to be used as sealant and where and when to use them... I am thinking that my 3pt issue is either the elbow is cracked for the psi relief or the seal is bad on the lift cylinder itself. I do not believe that the elbow is broken completely off because the arms will go up when rpms are raised and nothing is hooked to tractor. My remotes work as they should with a external cylinder hooked up. Sorry to be so long winded, but I figured this was a good time to give an update since you brought up the same topic and problems. Seems to me that for the most part people post a question and get a lot of good and helpful advice, but never really post a follow up to let others know if they corrected the problems and how they did it. So please keep us informed on how you make out with your repairs and what you find when you get you hydraulic system opened up. I will also when I tear into mine, thanks again.
 
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J. Schwiebert
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:58 pm    Post subject: Re: 1650 lift arms dropping at low rpm Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Please send me an e-mail and include your phone number. thanks. J.
 
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dnd
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:22 pm    Post subject: Re: 1650 lift arms dropping at low rpm Reply to specific post Reply with quote

John my email should be open. I did respond on Saturday evening. I will again tonight after our fire district meeting.

Dan
 
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dnd
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:40 pm    Post subject: Re: 1650 lift arms dropping at low rpm Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Three point arm update, tonight I r moved all the oil, removed the hydraulic assembly the elbow looks good and does not appear to be cracked,,,, As suggested by rrlund I might have a bad orang in the 3 point lift cylinder. Question what is the easiest way to get the piston out of the sleeve. Remove the elbow at the end and put some air on it?
 
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NYOlivers
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:43 pm    Post subject: Re: 1650 lift arms dropping at low rpm Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Do you have a service manual for the tractor? In there it shows how to remove the piston using a block of wood. I don't know if that's a good idea to use shop air to remove it. I am sure someone on here has a trick or good way to do it. Don't forget to check the pressure relief valve, to make sure it is working at proper psi. That is also explained in the manual.
 
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dnd
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:08 pm    Post subject: Re: 1650 lift arms dropping at low rpm Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thanks, I have an IT manual for a White 2-70 th Nking generally this should be similiar to the 1650.If I am reading it correctly I need to drop the cylinder housing down and then bump the open end against a block of wood to get the piston out the open end. I did not see anything about checking the relief safety valve setting though.
 
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NYOlivers
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:46 pm    Post subject: Re: 1650 lift arms dropping at low rpm Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Yes I just checked my service manual, that's what is says to "jar" the piston loose not to harm housing or piston. Good luck! I have not yet had a chance to try and remove the piston from housing. For checking the pressure relief, basically hook the valve to a T-fitting with a psi gauge on one side and a pump from like a port-o-power unit, or a grease gun filled with HYD oil on the other side. In my manual the valve testing is at the end of the lift section, not in the same area where the lift cylinder info is. According to the manual it should be set to 2300-2500 psi and should not leak up to 2000psi. That is for a 1600 tractor, but I would think the specs should be the same.
 
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