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3020 starter solenoid

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sandel
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:02 am    Post subject: 3020 starter solenoid Reply to specific post Reply with quote

1970 gas 3020. Last summer began intermitent problem of not cranking when key turned to start. Sometimes clicking, sometimes nothing. Cranked and started right up with srew driver accross two lugs on the solenoid on top of the starter. Has become more frequent problem. Acknowledge from historic threads it may variety of causes but am thinking to replace solenoid, or what I think to be the solenoid, which I understood to be the small cylindrical arrangemnet on top of the starter. However, as I study the project it appears not to be detachable but instead, part of the starter. Am I offbase in my thinking?

If the starter must come off, there appears to be two easily accessed bolts on the outside and at least one in the back that is not easy to get at. Is that correct and can the one in back be reached with a socket and extensions? Other issues that I haven't properly considered? Thanks.
 
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JDIH
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:09 am    Post subject: Re: 3020 starter solenoid Reply to specific post Reply with quote

It's not the solenoid if you can jump it with a screwdriver
 
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tim s
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:13 am    Post subject: Re: 3020 starter solenoid Reply to specific post Reply with quote

It could be the solenoid that is ahead of the starter..or the safety switch.
 
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susandiane
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:38 am    Post subject: Re: 3020 starter solenoid Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Right off 1), I must tell you that I don't know anything about JD starters other than the kind you mash with your left foot or your two arms. With that in mind, there should be a small wire to the solenoid that comes from the "crank" terminal on the ignition switch, If the solenoid is good, jumping the hot battery (vs ground) terminal to the small solenoid terminal should reliably engage the starter every time. This procedure by passes all safety features, so be sure it's not in gear, brakes are locked, your life insurance is sufficient and paid up, and it's chained to a mountain. If the solenoid is OK and the ignition is in the run position, you can start the engine. 2) I would bet the $2.00 I've got on me that there's a way to get the solenoid off. Some attach to the starter via small bolts that are inaccessible unless the starter is removed. It is possible with certain starters to have a remote solenoid, but if you have the cylinder on the starter with the battery/starter terminals on it, this is probably not the case. If hot wiring it works, the problem is in the switch, neutral safety switch or who-knows-where-else.

Hope someone qualified comes on to give you better advice. Good luck
 
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Tx Jim
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:22 am    Post subject: Re: 3020 starter solenoid Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Adding a starter relay if one isn't already present might solve the no starter engagement problem. Relay if installed correctly will provide more voltage to solenoid engagement wire(yellow).


 
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sandel
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:32 am    Post subject: Re: 3020 starter solenoid Reply to specific post Reply with quote

JDIH-so if jumping works then solenoid itself can be ruled out. Can bad connections be the issue since it clicks but doesn't
crank? Just not putting enough juice to the solenoid to make it fully engage?

Also didn't think it is faulty Safty Start Switch since it starts fine when it cranks and jiggling shifter doesn't make a
difference.
 
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JDEM
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:44 pm    Post subject: Re: 3020 starter solenoid Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Assuming the OEM type Delco 35MT starter, a new starter-mounted solenoid is $15-$20 and pretty easy to check and/or replace. Delco solenoid # 1115510.

These solenoids draw a lot of current and sometimes will work when jumping with a screw-driver and not work with a key-switch. Many tractors got an extra starter-relay added to enable more power to get to the solenoid and take the load off the key switch. So besides the solenoid on the starter, you might have a relay in the system too. New relay is only around $8-$10.

Check voltage at the relay when trying to crank. If 9-10 volts and not engaging, the solenoid is bad. If below 9 volts, you have a wiring issue, bad relay, bad ignition switch, etc.
 
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JDEM
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:51 pm    Post subject: Re: 3020 starter solenoid Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Solenoid and relay.


 
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matthies
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:01 pm    Post subject: Re: 3020 starter solenoid Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Check the large wiring connector under the key switch, just got done replacing terminals.
 
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3020G
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:28 pm    Post subject: Re: 3020 starter solenoid Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The key switch on the 4020 acted the same way you describe when it went bad. May pull the panel out and check it out.
 
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buckeye al
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:43 pm    Post subject: Re: 3020 starter solenoid Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I been chasing this very problem with my 1967 3020G for two years. Sometimes it's there, sometimes it's not. I been through both of the wiring harness big connectors (the one above the valve cover & the one under the dash) I been through the neutral safety switch & the push button starter switch. Every time I open the kick panel & start hunting with a volt meter to find the low voltage point it starts! Grrrr. I've even left the cowling off so I could use a long probe down through the hydraulic levers & lines to look for the problem.

All it does is the oil & gen lights come on with the key & if it's not going to start the solenoid remains silent but the oil & gen lamps dim a bit when I press the start switch. That tells me the circuit is not OPEN but its resistance is a bit higher than it should be. But WHERE remains the problem!

Much as I hate it, Mr screwdriver makes it pop right off.

I'm thinking all systems are go but maybe only at 98%. By the time 2% is lost in each of 5 or 6 places just not enough is left to make it go! I have never had this problem after placing a battery charger on it for a half hour and like I said, Mr Screwdriver always has made it go.

Last thing I did was to hook a hot feed to the push button starter switch in a way that starter control still goes through the neutral safety switch. This only bypasses the battery feed TO the main switch, the main switch & the wire to the push button from the main. It has not failed since! I'm therefore thinking mine is the main ignition switch. The bypassing of the main plus the fact that it works whenever I open the kick panel which twists & changes the position of the wires attached to the main switch hints to me it's the main. I'm guessing Mother Deere probably want more than 10 or 15 bucks for THAT & have been reluctant to "experiment" with starting there but things keep hinting (in my case) that it's the main key switch!

Maybe this helps? Maybe not.

Just be careful!
 
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sandel
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:12 pm    Post subject: Re: 3020 starter solenoid Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Is the starter relay you reference the one in the picture? If so is it the device located in a little box like enclosure directly above the back end of the starter?
 
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jd adict
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:17 pm    Post subject: Re: 3020 starter solenoid Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I had this same problem and finally determined that the big bulk head connector had a couple bad wire connections in it going to the starter.
I just bypassed the connector with 2 wires and it works great.
i believe one is power going from the push button to the selenoid and cant remember the other, coil maybe,
anyhow best way to determine this is to just use a jumper wire and eliminate the big bulk connector starter wires.
these wires are 45 plus years old and have gotten brittle and weak.
 
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unc
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:51 pm    Post subject: Re: 3020 starter solenoid Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Just a shot in the dark- check the connections on the ammeter terminals. They can loosen up and cause a problem like you describe. I learned this the hard way on a 1969 GMC pickup. I checked and re-checked everything possible, and finally spotted the battery terminal on the amp gauge arcing in the dark. Five minute easy fix and problem was permanently solved. Good luck, these small nuisances can drive you nuts. unc
 
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JDIH
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 6:13 pm    Post subject: Re: 3020 starter solenoid Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CVPost-sandel wrote:
(quoted from post at 12:32:10 12/04/17) JDIH-so if jumping works then solenoid itself can be ruled out. Can bad connections be the issue since it clicks but doesn't
crank? Just not putting enough juice to the solenoid to make it fully engage?

Also didn't think it is faulty Safty Start Switch since it starts fine when it cranks and jiggling shifter doesn't make a
difference.

Should be easily diagnosed with a test light and volt meter without throwing a bunch of parts at it. If jumping it with a screwdriver works, then your power (big terminal) and ground are good. You'd be looking for a lack of power on the small terminal on the solenoid. Which yes, could be a bad connection, faulty switch, upstream solenoid as tim s mentioned, or whatever.
 
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