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801newbie
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:49 pm    Post subject: 801 no start Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Hey all, first post here.

So I've been stalking this forum for a while but now I need some help on a topic that I can't find an answer to.

I have an 851, 1961, that has been converted to twelve volt, ran great ever since I did the conversion. I had some carb issues today so I pulled the carb fixed it and put it back together. Fired her up and started right up and idoled just fine. Put it in gear took of and it stalled, ok need to tweak the carb adjustments no problem. Went to start it back up thought it was going to fire it didn't and so I hit the starter button again, I THINK the starter was still spinning when I did this. After that nothing happens when I hit the starter button. Like the battery was taken out of it.

I tested the push button with a test light, got power as it should.

Battery is at 13.xx volts.

13.xx volts on both sides of the solenoid

13.xx volts to the coil

When I put it in 5th gear and rock it the fan spins.

13.xx colts to the wiring going to the starter

Good voltage on the key switch

I don't know? When a stuck bendix cause this problem? I'm a guy in my 20's and I know these tractors are common sense, but this isn't common to me so throw me a bone!

Thanks guys, and gals
 
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Destroked 450
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Location: Harned, Ky.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:50 pm    Post subject: Re: 801 no start Reply to specific post Reply with quote


If you have voltage at the starter when you push the start button somethings wrong with the starter.
Can you hear the starter motor spinning but it's not cranking the engine? If so the bendix has broke, pull the starter and replace the bendix.
 
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801newbie
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:05 pm    Post subject: Re: 801 no start Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Destroked 450 wrote:
(quoted from post at 18:50:38 12/07/17)
If you have voltage at the starter when you push the start button somethings wrong with the starter.
Can you hear the starter motor spinning but it's not cranking the engine? If so the bendix has broke, pull the starter and replace the bendix.



Thanks for the reply! So let's go about this two ways. First I hear NOTHING, I mean NOTHJNG, when the starter button is pushed. So i know I can hear, and I hear nothing, but let's assume I didn't check for voltage correctly.

How would you verify voltage at the starter when the button is pushed. Let's double check me, to eliminate error on my part.
 
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801newbie
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:48 pm    Post subject: Re: 801 no start Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Also, let's double check my hearing, is this a loud "spinning I should here, or so I need to put my ear to the starter and listen?
 
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Larry NCKS
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:50 pm    Post subject: Re: 801 no start Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Assuming your starter is still wired like it came from the factory (Yes, I know that's dangerous with all the other mods that have been done to it) pull the wire from the small S terminal on the solenoid. With the ignition switch turned on, ground that terminal to chassis (make sure the tractor is in neutral and can't run over you!). What did it do? If it cranks you've got a problem in the starter button or wire from it to the solenoid. If still no crank, check for battery voltage at the small I terminal at the starter. If it's there, jump 12V directly to the big post on the starter. Once again, make sure the tractor is in neutral and that it can't run over you! If still no crank, have the starter rebuilt or get a reman starter. If that does crank it, you've got a problem from the terminal block to the I post on the solenoid.
 
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Larry NCKS
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:53 pm    Post subject: Re: 801 no start Reply to specific post Reply with quote

801newbie wrote:
(quoted from post at 21:48:39 12/07/17)
Also, let's double check my hearing, is this a loud "spinning I should here, or so I need to put my ear to the starter and listen?


You should be able to hear the starter from the next county (not literally) if it's cranking.
 
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Larry NCKS
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:55 pm    Post subject: Re: 801 no start Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Larry NCKS wrote:
(quoted from post at 21:50:37 12/07/17)
Assuming your starter is still wired like it came from the factory (Yes, I know that's dangerous with all the other mods that have been done to it) pull the wire from the small S terminal on the solenoid. With the ignition switch turned on, ground that terminal to chassis (make sure the tractor is in neutral and can't run over you!). What did it do? If it cranks you've got a problem in the starter button or wire from it to the solenoid. If still no crank, check for battery voltage at the small I terminal at the starter. If it's there, jump 12V directly to the big post on the starter. Once again, make sure the tractor is in neutral and that it can't run over you! If still no crank, have the starter rebuilt or get a reman starter. If that does crank it, you've got a problem from the terminal block to the I post on the solenoid.


Oops! the small I terminal is on the solenoid, not the starter.
 
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801newbie
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:11 pm    Post subject: Re: 801 no start Reply to specific post Reply with quote


I checked the the wire from the starter button to the solenoid, and redid the wire it had some cracks and corrosion, so it's not and good. I tried to "jump" it via the solenoid and it did nothing.
 
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801newbie
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:16 pm    Post subject: Re: 801 no start Reply to specific post Reply with quote


And yes the wiring to the starter is "factory" compared it to a ford wiring diagram I had in a manual. But I will try shorting the wire from the seloniod like you suggested to test the switch like you suggested.

I did test the switch by putting a test light on the positive post of the battery and putting the test light prob on where you hook the wire to the push button start, with the wire disconnected. When I pushed the start button the test light lit up. Is this the same test done a different way ?
 
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801newbie
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:55 pm    Post subject: Re: 801 no start Reply to specific post Reply with quote



sorry for so many questions trying to piece all this together and answer the questions that arise from another answer

So it seems like it's something mechanically wrong with the starter what cause no sound? No anything ?
 
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Larry NCKS
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:29 pm    Post subject: Re: 801 no start Reply to specific post Reply with quote


jump a good 12 V right to the starter, bypassing the solenoid entirely. If you still have no crank, rebuild or replace the starter.
 
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grandpa Love
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:47 am    Post subject: Re: 801 no start Reply to specific post Reply with quote

If you pull the starter out and
parts are missing..........don't
worry they are deep inside ,with
several other parts of other
starters. At least that's what I
read on here! I was about in a
panic.
 
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Destroked 450
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:11 am    Post subject: Re: 801 no start Reply to specific post Reply with quote


True ^^.
I broke a bendix spring on my 881 last year, replaced the bendix and back going. I'll remove the broken parts when ever I have to split the tractor which I hope is never.
 
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Sean in PA
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:45 am    Post subject: Re: 801 no start Reply to specific post Reply with quote

801newbie wrote:
(quoted from post at 23:16:37 12/07/17)
And yes the wiring to the starter is "factory" compared it to a ford wiring diagram I had in a manual.


The "factory" wiring used a starter button that was in the top plate of the transmission and was used to complete the solenoid's circuit to ground. From your descriptions so far, it sounds like your starter button provides +12V to the solenoid, so it can't be "factory".
 
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Larry NCKS
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:48 am    Post subject: Re: 801 no start Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Sean in PA wrote:
(quoted from post at 11:45:25 12/08/17)
From your descriptions so far, it sounds like your starter button provides +12V to the solenoid, so it can't be "factory".


801newbie can tell us which is correct. Granted his descriptions of things could be a little confusing.

Remember, however, that he's converted this tractor to a 12 volt system. My guess is that his conversion also entailed changing from positive to negative ground. If that is true, what he said about checking the starter button would not lend itself to thinking his starter circuits are other than OEM.
 
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