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New pistons and sleeves too tight for starter to turn

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jd36a
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:27 pm    Post subject: New pistons and sleeves too tight for starter to turn Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Have a friend who purchased a 1961 AC gas (not sure of model). It had one cylinder stuck when he got it. He removed the sleeves and pistons and ordered a new set. When replacing them cylinder # 1 was fine but as he got # 2 in was very hard to move and when 3 and 4 were put in it was so tight you could not move them at all. He jacked tractor up and put in gear but could not move them at all. What are some things he should be looking at. He said he numbered them as he removed them to get the (rods I think) matched to the cylinder they were originally in. Not in backwards he said as they will fit only one way and the arrow on top of pistons pointing in correct direction. Wish I could be more exact but not versed in this at all. Will relay any ideas anyone may have and thank you in advance for your time.
 
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Aaron SEIA
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:59 pm    Post subject: Re: New pistons and sleeves too tight for starter to turn Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Either he didn't get the rods offset in the pistons, or he needs to buy some plastigage and start checking rod bores.
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old
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:13 pm    Post subject: Re: New pistons and sleeves too tight for starter to turn Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Did her put in new rod and main bearings?? If he did does he have the correct ones for how ever the crank has been turned to if it has been turned. Did he maybe tighten them to much. Or maybe he did not prelube them as one should any or all of those can cause the problems
 
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teddy52food
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:40 pm    Post subject: Re: New pistons and sleeves too tight for starter to turn Reply to specific post Reply with quote

When he put in #2 & it was tight, it was time to find out why? Not after putting 3 & 4 in. All new parts or using the old pistons without cleaning the grooves? Ring gap checked? Bearings plastigaged? Using lube or dry?
 
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dakota dave
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:08 pm    Post subject: Re: New pistons and sleeves too tight for starter to turn Reply to specific post Reply with quote

His rods are not correctly installed on the Pistons. They are offset if pistons and rods are assembles incorrectly you can't turn the engine over without destroying them.
 
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Dick L
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:33 pm    Post subject: Re: New pistons and sleeves too tight for starter to turn Reply to specific post Reply with quote

He ordered a new set that includes what? What all new parts does he have? Has he tried to turn it with rod caps loose? so many little details to guess with the information provided. If the rings were new did he place the rings down in the cylinder square and check the end gap. If the rod bearings were new and placed on the crankshaft that wasn't ground. If the crankshaft was not ground was it measured to see how far out of round it was. The arrows on the pistons are not what you go by if you have an engine with off set rods. With off set rods you can check in assembly if they are correct by making sure the rod is centered in the piston on the wrist pin. When sliding the piston with rod down in the cylinder it must then be centered on the crankshaft journal. That means you have to be (looking) at the rod starting to go over the crankshaft journal. If it is not centered it needs to be turned the opposite way. Checking this way there is no need to try to remember which way they should go and get all mixed up.
 
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rustred
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:01 pm    Post subject: Re: New pistons and sleeves too tight for starter to turn Reply to specific post Reply with quote

basically no info of any use here. need measurement details and every little thing that was done. dont even know if your talking about pistons in the cyl's or once the rod is torqued to the crank.
 
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jd36a
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:30 am    Post subject: Re: New pistons and sleeves too tight for starter to turn Reply to specific post Reply with quote

OK got a little more info. Only new parts were the sleeves, pistons, rings and gasket set. Ran some of the answers by him and said ring gaps were ok as the pistons moved fine until corrected to the shaft. did not plastigauge anything but going to take back apart and try that. Thinks a couple the rods may not be exactly centered as mentioned in a response so i guess he just starts over, Thanks for the responses
 
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Aaron SEIA
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 10:51 am    Post subject: Re: New pistons and sleeves too tight for starter to turn Reply to specific post Reply with quote

If he reused the rod bearings, I wonder if he mixed up rods and got the bearings in the wrong journals or put a bearing in backwards from original.
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Dick L
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 12:41 pm    Post subject: Re: New pistons and sleeves too tight for starter to turn Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Starting over would be my suggestion!
 
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504
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 2:51 pm    Post subject: Re: New pistons and sleeves too tight for starter to turn Reply to specific post Reply with quote

All the above and check the toque specification. A buddy and I did mains and rod bearings on a WD back in 1974 and it wound not turn over,the book we used had the wrong rod toque specs.
 
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DrAllis
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 3:33 am    Post subject: Re: New pistons and sleeves too tight for starter to turn Reply to specific post Reply with quote

STILL DON'T KNOW WHAT MODEL OF TRACTOR OR ENGINE !! There is a chance he has something not SHIMMED correctly on a rod or main cap !!
 
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Aaron SEIA
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 3:11 pm    Post subject: Re: New pistons and sleeves too tight for starter to turn Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Did they still use anything with shims in 61?
AaronSEIA
 
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DrAllis
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 5:51 pm    Post subject: Re: New pistons and sleeves too tight for starter to turn Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Not if it is truly a 1961 model, but we can't assume that claim is accurate when we haven't been told what MODEL it is.
 
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rustred
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:17 pm    Post subject: Re: New pistons and sleeves too tight for starter to turn Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Bingo ! so he knew about plastiguage and did not even check the brg's? wow , and asks us what the problem could be ,as if we are magician's. new brgs or old brgs need to be checked to know how much wear you have and to see if clearances are in spec.
 
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