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digging a pomd

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William Fissell
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 8:00 pm    Post subject: digging a pomd Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Hi, All,

Performing a cut n fill in back for FEMA compliance. The area is slightly irregular 40x20 have to go down no more than 24" Very wet loam. May hit a little clay at the bottom.

Option 1: hire it out, quotes here are $15,000-$20,000. seems high for 60 cubic yards moved about 75 feet uphill.

Option 2: rent a track hoe and dump trailer

Option 3: use my own pippin excavator on to-30 (pictured), rent dump trailer

Option 4 find or buy a pond scoop

What do folks here think? I am leaning to #3 but its a small backhoe and would go pretty slow. I imagine the pond scoop would also be pretty slow.

thanks in advance!



 
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farmall 400
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 9:13 pm    Post subject: Re: digging a pomd Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Find a dealer or rental place where you can get a skid steer with tracks preferably. a tooth bar or tooth bucket would help, less than a weekend of work
 
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ptfarmer
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 2:08 am    Post subject: Re: digging a pomd Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CVPost-farmall 400 wrote:
(quoted from post at 22:13:43 12/25/17) Find a dealer or rental place where you can get a skid steer with tracks preferably. a tooth bar or tooth bucket would help, less than a weekend of work





X2 on the skid steer, I have a old 743B Bobcat with a 1/2 yard bucket, and I could something like that in a couple of days. The newer, faster, more powerful skid steers should do the job much faster.
 
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Traditional Farmer
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 4:24 am    Post subject: Re: digging a pomd Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I can't see why you couldn't use the machine you have there,scoop out what you can with the bucket and get the rest with the hoe then load it on the dump trailer.You should be able
to sell what you scoop out as topsoil or advertise on CL probably someone that needs soil would use their trailer to haul it away.
 
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Tony in SD
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 4:38 am    Post subject: Re: digging a pomd Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I did nearly the sameth9ng with my Bobcat 763 about 20 years ago. As mentioned before tracks work best. Mine has after market Grouser tracks on it since it was new.
You are right about the $15000 being high. I?m sure I could get it done here for less than a 3rd of that. Might want to call around.
 
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showcrop
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 4:58 am    Post subject: Re: digging a pomd Reply to specific post Reply with quote


The price sounds high to me too. You are going to pay $1200 min. a day for a smaller excavator, but it sounds like a project that could be done in one day. Since you say that it is very wet loam, I would not plan on doing it with a skid steer even on tracks because as you get deeper it will get wetter. I would either go with your Pippin, working from the center out of course, or rent a track hoe with far more reach. An excavator with the elec. over hydraulic controls is much easier to operate than your pippin and of course will cut by 1/3 the number of times that you would need to move the material.
 
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Hogleg
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 5:24 am    Post subject: Re: digging a pomd Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Around here you can get a CAT dozer with an operator for around $100 to $125 an hour. Took him 2 days to build my pond. Just had the dirt pushed into a small hill next to it. Then gave the dirt away a truckload at a time over the next year. Cost me around $2000. Would be easy to use your small TLB to load out guys that need free/cheap dirt.

John
 
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Billy NY
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 8:31 am    Post subject: Re: digging a pomd Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Small job, price for that is way too high unless there is a lot more we don't know about that needs to be done. 15K-20K to excavate say 4 large truck loads worth at 15 yds each which includes "fluff" - depending on soil type, 15% + or more in volume when excavated.

A late model 4WD rubber tire backhoe on rental would go a long way to finish that job in a day as long as the terrain is not too soft and the uphill part you don't have to work sideways on or perpendicular to the slope.

Pond/slip scoop is too inefficient, will take you a long time, lots of hours on the tractor.

#3 would be your best bet, but heavy wet loam, narrow front tires, manual steering and wagner loader that hopefully does not have a manually operated trip bucket.

LGP dozer would not be a bad choice, if not too soft, a regular small dozer would work. Make a slot to push the spoil to the fill area, grade as needed, keep at the pond work until done, working both areas so as to not get hemmed in. An experienced/skilled operator could make short work of it. If too soft, more of a risk, I'd then go with a large enough excavator that can reach all of the pond area, casting the spoil as close to the fill area as can be done, you may have to cast it again until its where you need it. Ideally a job like that we would do with a dozer and excavator easily in a day if there are no unforseen conditions, water, rock etc. 24" is not deep, so you may have a relatively easy job there for just one of these machines.

I've used an 850 Ford with a wagner loader and manual steering for earthwork, not very productive, but if you have lots of time, can get traction and not have to work in soft conditions, it can work, but will take so much longer.

In soft areas, you will notice that when running across the same area quite a bit you may pump water up and in a few passes make ruts which are miserable to work in. Job is best done in dry conditions or you will make a mess before you get any real work done.

I did this work for over 5 years full time for smaller to large contractors, any skilled operator should be able to assess what you have and how to get it done most efficiently.
 
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David G
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:10 am    Post subject: Re: digging a pomd Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Your tractor is way too small for moving that much dirt, will do more damage than worth.

I think a dozer could come in and make short work of it.
 
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ptfarmer
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:21 am    Post subject: Re: digging a pomd Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Anything with tires will get stuck when digging wet sand, unless the operator knows what he's doing. A track machine with wide tracks (LGP) would be best. But with tracks, or tires the less you let them spin the better. If the pond needs, or you want it to hold water lining it with clay is the best thing.
 
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carvel minne farmer
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 11:12 am    Post subject: Re: digging a pomd Reply to specific post Reply with quote

good morning William and merry Christmas, a couple of questions William, how dry(firm) is the ground around your dig site? looking at your backhoe/loader it looks like it has at least 10 to 12 foot reach. if your actual pond dig is only 20x40 feet you should be able to split the pond in half and dig your way down the length stacking the loam in a pile as you go. when you have the pond dug out use the front end loader to move it to your pile site, if it's only 75 feet away it would be quicker to move it with the loader as you would only be handling and moving the dirt twice. last year I dug 2 4ft. wide and 4ft. deep trenches a 100ft. long for an organic garden (called a hauginsvale Austrian style) with my yanmar b-6 excavator. it's on rubber tracks, 14ft. dig depth it took a day each in hard clay and at $100.00 / hour his bill was $1600.00 I am sure amazed at the quotes you got Shocked even with moving equipment to site, doing the dig, moving the dirt, and cleaning up it shouldn't be over $2000.00
 
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old
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 11:24 am    Post subject: Re: digging a pomd Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I have 2 small lakes on the place that I have been digging out now for well over 35 years. I have used a dozier at times but got stuck a few times. I have used 4 wheel drive machines like the Cat 950 I have on the place and got stuck and I have used farm tractors with loader and got stuck. Ya I got something done each time but by far anything you can use and not get into the pond/lake area the better off you are. One can go around the edge of a pond wit ha backhoe and dig out as deep as one can and slowly the center of the pond will fil them back in but also make the center deeper
 
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rustred
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 1:13 pm    Post subject: Re: digging a pomd Reply to specific post Reply with quote

that is track hoe work. that is only an afternoon's work for it. he can swing around and put the dirt in a pile and you can haul it away in your own time with your tractor if you dont want him spending time to move it. your tractor is too small for that work.that price is rediculous. im thinking from 1-2000.00 for the actual job, depending on the operator as there will be travel time.
 
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tractorguy1951
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 4:00 pm    Post subject: Re: digging a pomd Reply to specific post Reply with quote

In 1958 dad and a neighbor dug a 32x36 basement 8 ft deep with a to30 ferguson and a super m with a trip bucket loader.Took three days but no money spent except gas.Had to dig a ramp about 25 ft long to get up and out of hole.
 
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old
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:41 pm    Post subject: Re: digging a pomd Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Way back when as in when I was say 5-10 we lived in Winfield KS and my dad built a house there. It had a full basement and it was dug using farm tractor he would rent and a slip scoop and or loader. Ya the slip scoop took two people to use but he got it done. I was walk in basement so no ramp was needed. I also remember that he ended up breaking a couple of those tractors front spindles also. It was a large house with 4 or 5 bedrooms If I had to guess as to how big it was probably in the 40foot by 60 foot with full basement and full attic. One corner that was in the hill side was a room with cement floor walls and rook as a storm shelter. Even had a steel door
 
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