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4020 Hard Starting

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tim s
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Joined: 01 Nov 2008
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Location: Somerset Ohio

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:41 am    Post subject: Re: 4020 Hard Starting Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Save your 10 dollars for the coffee shop and just jiggle the steering wheel a bit...you will get near the same effect...
 
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2510Paul
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Joined: 27 Nov 2007
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Location: La Crosse, WI

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:59 am    Post subject: Re: 4020 Hard Starting Reply to specific post Reply with quote

We were talking about the automatic fuel-timing this a.m. at breakfast. Can you school me on how to check it?

One of the guys at breakfast also suggested I tweek the timing very little at a time while running and see if the smoke goes away. He suggested keep the screw snug so I can just barely twist the pump.

Thanks for your comments.

Paul
 
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tim s
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:11 am    Post subject: Re: 4020 Hard Starting Reply to specific post Reply with quote

It will not want to turn very well,, the lines will be holding it,,then you will look for the Big Channel locs,,then next you will be breaking things on the pump....just saying...I know how this story ends...
 
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2510Paul
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:22 am    Post subject: Re: 4020 Hard Starting Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thanks everyone for your comments. They are extremely helpful. I will print this out and check them off as I complete them.

Any schooling on the pump would be helpful. I am an electrical engineer and old farm boy so I have some aptitude but the pumps are not my strength. I even got a book but I think I need to read it about 10 more times. :-)

The connections all look good. I have a post under the dash to bring two 12v batterys together, even it looks good after two years. I had sprayed it with corrosion preventative when I built/installed it.

The comment about the length of the starter is very interesting. I have a 1971 4020 sitting there, the starter on it is way longer.

Tim, I hope I am not asking stupid questions about the starter p/n. I just did not know if the geometry of the mounting and gear engagement changed over the years. I may pull the starter from the 71 and put it in this 67 and try it.

Thanks again and Happy New Year

The Picture is me working on my shed in the approximately 2005 frame. If course it is dark, I did much of the work at night after dark by the light of Halogen Lights all around. Tractor is an 855 with loader and backhoe on it.

Paul

 
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2510Paul
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:33 am    Post subject: Re: 4020 Hard Starting Reply to specific post Reply with quote

OK, Good Comment. Paul
 
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IowaJohn
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:37 am    Post subject: Re: 4020 Hard Starting Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Paul I have the same nippondenso starter on both 4020's an early and late and also on a 4430.
 
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David G
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:54 am    Post subject: Re: 4020 Hard Starting Reply to specific post Reply with quote

You do not know if the valve deck heights were checked during the overhaul.

Pull the pump / injectors, send to Dieseltech, then run compression test before you put the injectors back in.
 
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JDEM
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:45 am    Post subject: Re: 4020 Hard Starting Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Seeing how you understand electronics- doing a simple voltage check should be "simple." Voltage at the big post on the starter-solenoid when cranking should be at least 9 volts if all is right. Engine should crank at 150-200 RPM for good starting. 12 volt starters are designed to work at 9-10 volts.

Again - having a destroker on the hydraulic pump is an absolute must on some 4020s. Have you checked to see if there is one installed? If not, it is a $10 part and very easy to install.

Personally, at this point I think you'd be crazy to yank the pump and injectors out at this point of your diagnostics.

 
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erskine2017
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:45 am    Post subject: Re: 4020 Hard Starting Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Why would an electrical engineer say "the connections all look good." The ONLY way to check connections and cables is to check voltage drop on both the supply side and return side of the circuit. I have yet t meet anyone who could SEE electrons.
 
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2510Paul
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:49 pm    Post subject: Re: 4020 Hard Starting Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thanks for your comment. You're right, data is the name of the game. The Batteries went with the owner to get checked. They checked "OK". Ya, that was not a warm fuzzy. Right now I don't have them in my possession.

As I said there are many good comments here I will check off as I complete them. At this point I can only comment on what I observed as I pulled the batteries out to test.

Paul
 
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John T
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 2:31 pm    Post subject: Re: 4020 Hard Starting Reply to specific post Reply with quote

In all my years as a tractor dealer and farmer I recall many times where the connections and lugs and terminals and posts were all bright n shiny and cable ends looked fine to the eye, but under the crimp (not visible to eye) at the cable ends heat and burning and carbon created a resistive connection which dropped excess voltage when heavy starter motor loads were being drawn, and obviously causing slowwwwwwwwww cranking. Sounds like you already had the batteries under a good Load Test so if they check out and are well charged and its NOT a hydraulic or destroking sort of a problem as discussed below, its time for some voltage drop data (cables and terminations and grounds or solenoids if possible etc) WHILE CRANKING...If its NOT any of that HMMMMMMMMMM the expensive starter grrrrrrrrrrrrrr Murphy strikes again.

John T
 
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buickanddeere
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 5:39 pm    Post subject: Re: 4020 Hard Starting Reply to specific post Reply with quote


I agree 100%. Problem is that all the Bubba’s with hard starting tractors refuse to measure voltage at various places while cranking.
It appears that most Bubbas view a multimeter with the same fear as they do of a coiled angry rattle snake .
 
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jared in wi
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 3:21 pm    Post subject: Re: 4020 Hard Starting Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Could it be that the steering issue is causing the hard starting issue? I agree with what JDEM mentioned about having 9-10 volts at the big terminal of the starter with it cranking. If it is not there and the batteries tested good, I would then move back to the junction block on the battery cables and check the voltage there. Using this method it is possible to isolate a bad connection, battery cable or battery. Taking the pump out of stroke would reduce the load on the starter during starting. But if there is a leak some where (remember the steering issue) that is allowing the pump to create flow, it would never go out of stroke on its own. I highly doubt that the fuel system is suspect.

Jared
 
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jared in wi
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 3:23 pm    Post subject: Re: 4020 Hard Starting Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Remember to Keep It Simple.

Jared
 
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westga
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:11 am    Post subject: Re: 4020 Hard Starting Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I've been reading and everything that has been recommended is good. BUT, I had a similar problem with starter on my 4020. Rebuilt by the best shop in town. Turned out it was all in the starter.

I would turn my attention back to the starter and make sure it's right.
 
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