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MD sleve question.


 
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lbg57
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Location: N.E. Wis.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 1:21 pm    Post subject: MD sleve question. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I posted this question on another site awhile back and received comments leading me in 2 different directions without a definite answer. Following is a little more info so maybe someone can clear up this question. Here goes

I am restoring a 1951 Farmall MD. I had the block to the machinist I use to check the block, install new cam bushings and install new sleeves. This is where the question lies. The service manual states that the sleeves need to be .041" - .047" above the block deck. When I got mine back from the shop the sleeves are only .005" above the deck.

I called the parts distributor where I purchased the complete rebuild kit including all the gaskets and asked them what they thought. They asked the current mechanics in back and said no one ever questioned it before that they are aware of and there are not many old timers around who worked on these for a living to check with.

Next I called the machine shop and asked the same question. Both the owner and one of his machinist said that they thought .041" - .047" was an awful lot and that most engines require only about .005."

Next I posted the question on another site and got answers in both directions. Some said that it needed to be at the .041" - .047" and others said that .005" would be fine.

Today I called my parts guy at an CNH dealership and asked him. He said he thought that it was printed in the service manual for a reason but maybe there could have been a head gasket change somewhere that was made and that I should ask the forum guys again what their thoughts were as someone had to have had this issue somewhere in the past.

Was there a head gasket change? I measured mine which is a CNH #225 604 A1 and the gasket itself is .075" thick and the fire ring on the gasket is .082".

I know there are a lot of knowledgeable people on here who have worked on these older units that may have gone through this and give me a definite answer as to which is correct or know of anyone I can contact on this matter.

Thanks everyone for your patience.
 
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Janicholson
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:18 pm    Post subject: Re: MD sleve question. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I do not know the serial numbers, but the explanation I can illuminate. The sleeve extension with a big number extends inside the
gasket and acts as a fire stop. The shorter extension hits the gasket and compresses it. I do not have the bools for it anymore.
Jim
 
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D Slater
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 4:44 pm    Post subject: Re: MD sleve question. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

.005 should be good for IH type 4 inch bore D-248 sleeves, and the gasket 225604A1 should work as the replacement for 305805R2. Check with Justin at Weber's tractor works on that to be sure.
 
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the tractor vet
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:47 pm    Post subject: Re: MD sleve question. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I do not have my books inft. of me and i gave up a long time ago tryen to keep everything in my head . SOOOOOoooo First off i would put a Mic to the old sleeves and check the countor bore flage thickness . The main reason for sleeve stand out is to he3lp hold the sleeves i place after the head gskt crushes . There is a lot more to engine building the just stuffen new parts in to do the job right . You check everything and i mean everything way before you start stuffing sleeves in with mic.'s dial indecators true straight edges and before the first sleeve goes in you should know if it will set at the correct hight . Also you should know just what hole that sleeve will fit the best in as they are NOT all the same size just like the pistons and each piston should be checked and the bore that that piston is going into may need some honing for proper fit Block bore needs to be checked and marked by each . hole . working on the old gas starts can become and expensive learning posses .
 
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Gary Mitchell
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Location: St Clair Co. Missouri

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:05 am    Post subject: Re: MD sleve question. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Jim, that can be crucial info. Once back in the early 70's when I was a mere rookie, I used the shorter lip head gasket with the longer lipped sleeves, on an medium size Case D. By the time I finished torqueing the head it had broken the top ring of all four sleeves. Like the Vet above said; measuring is important. gm
 
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jim warehime
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:26 am    Post subject: Re: MD sleve question. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Check with Justin Weber at Webers tractor
works. If i recall right there were 2 4"
sleeves used for the md, one had a short
sleeve protrusion the other was a longer
protrusion. This is why you have to be
leary of machine shops when it comes to
rebuilding gas start diesels, they just
assume they are like other engine when in
reality they can be very different.
Hopefully they didn't ruin a expensive set
of sleeves by guessing. As far as head
gasket, the 4" md overbore kit used a
specific gasket which was only used with
that one sleeve, the factory d248 3 7/8"
and factory d264 4"-4 1/8" use the same
gasket. If you install the improper head
gasket chances are you will hammer the
sleeves out on start up. Speak with Justin
Weber, I would take his word before I gave
any credibility to anyone at caseih with
the exception of ken updike.
 
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lbg57
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 7:34 am    Post subject: Re: MD sleeve question. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Hello Jim. I did reach out to Justin and this is the response I received, "Due to the fact that some of these piston and sleeve sets are being reproduced by way of China and India, and I do not know the specs being used. I would suggest using the recommendation of the supplier, as if you have any issues, you will have recourse with the supplier."

Thanks for all the responses. It looks like I still have to do more digging. Confused
 
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Roger46
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:20 am    Post subject: Re: MD sleve question. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Jim, What do you mean by "acts as a fire stop". When I rebuilt my MD back in around 2000 I ended up having some shims laser cut to bring the sleeves up to the .045" because my sleeves didn't protrude that much and I had the head gasket that didn't contact the sleeve. I have never had any issues with the engine, although I don't drive it a lot.
 
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Janicholson
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 4:23 pm    Post subject: Re: MD sleve question. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The metal of the extended ring protects the edge of the gasket (in the engines with the tall sleeve rings) because the gasket is outside of the ring, and quenches the flame front. The thin gap at the top of the Sleeve between the sleeve and cylinder head is what makes it work. The conventional .005 (short) extension hits the gasket and thus exposes the edge of it to the combustion. (I think either work well) Jim
 
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