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1970s Fords

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Sean in PA
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:06 am    Post subject: Re: 1970s Fords Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The serial number will not tell you what model it is, only when it was made. The serial number should be a 6 digit number after the leading C, so that "T" in the middle is likely a 1 or a 7. A serial number starting in "C59" should be a 1978 or 1979 tractor. If the "T" is really a 1 then it would be a 1978 tractor, and if it is a "7" then it would be a 1979 tractor.

I can see from the pictures that it has the radius rod front axle and the double reduction rear axle, so it is a 4600SU. It also has a remote valve under the seat with a single set of remote connections out the rear, and it has the transmission hand brake which was an option.
 
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65plymouth
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:21 am    Post subject: Re: 1970s Fords Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Thanks Sean..

Yeah... The seller has it listed as a 1979 so I assume the "T" is really a 7.
I have a blurry photo of the information tag. Cant make out the first few digits of of the model number but it looks like XX214C. the C might be a 6 for all I can tell.

So you believe it is an SU model? Anything wrong with the SU model? Is it more or less desirable than the regular model? I assume it is less considering the lighter weight front end?

The attached pics are the only ones I have and the only ones the owner has at this time. I guess the tractor is under a lean-to wrapped in tarps for the winter.

Thanks
Jeff
 
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Destroked 450
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:33 am    Post subject: Re: 1970s Fords Reply to specific post Reply with quote


That's a SU model, I have the earlier 4000SU, very handy tractor.
Pro's - Same compact size with swept back axle as a 3600 but has the more powerful 201 engine, independent pto, planetary axles and wet disc brakes of the 4600.
Con's - Swept back axle is lighter duty and doesn't work as well with a loader as the regular 4600 straight axle.
Same gearing as regular model but with shorter tires so it has a little slower travel speeds.

It's a little hard to recommend a tractor size without knowing a little about what you plan to do with it, tell us what you have or want to do.

Example.
We raise a cattle and poultry, I bale around 120 acres of hay each year in round bales
My 4000SU's compact size works great inside our poultry barns with plenty of power, I also use it to ted and rake hay.
It's smaller size and lighter front end weight doesn't work well handling my disc mower, baler, or moving round bales.
My 4000 has been my main tractor for nearly 30 years doing every job on the farm, heavy duty straight axle make it better for loader use, it's larger size doesn't work as well in the poultry barns and it takes up a little more room doing close quarters work, other wise it's a good all around use tractor.
The new larger disc mower and baler I bought a few years ago have it near it's limits in being able to operate them and handle them safely.
I acquired my late brothers 5000 a few years ago and find myself using it more and more each year, it larger physical size makes it the better tractor for the new mower and baler, this also makes it a better loader tractor, it also handles my 10' brush hog better.
It's to big to properly use in the poultry barns so I don't even pull it into the buildings, I also consider it to big for close quarters work, box blading the drive ways, mowing around bushes and under trees.
Due to hay dust allergies I now have a 6610 cab tractor with AC for baling, also does a good job pulling the 15" bat wing mower clipping pastures.

As you see I have different sizes for different jobs now but my 4000 use to do all of the work so I'm kinda parcel to to it.
Large row crop operators would consider my size tractors as useless toys.
Those maintaining their drive way and small acreage may consider anything larger than the 4000SU as to big.
 
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65plymouth
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:59 am    Post subject: Re: 1970s Fords Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Destroked 450 wrote:
(quoted from post at 11:33:04 01/02/1Cool
That's a SU model, I have the earlier 4000SU, very handy tractor.
Pro's - Same compact size with swept back axle as a 3600 but has the more powerful 201 engine, independent pto, planetary axles and wet disc brakes of the 4600.
Con's - Swept back axle is lighter duty and doesn't work as well with a loader as the regular 4600 straight axle.
Same gearing as regular model but with shorter tires so it has a little slower travel speeds.

It's a little hard to recommend a tractor size without knowing a little about what you plan to do with it, tell us what you have or want to do.

Example.
We raise a cattle and poultry, I bale around 120 acres of hay each year in round bales
My 4000SU's compact size works great inside our poultry barns with plenty of power, I also use it to ted and rake hay.
It's smaller size and lighter front end weight doesn't work well handling my disc mower, baler, or moving round bales.
My 4000 has been my main tractor for nearly 30 years doing every job on the farm, heavy duty straight axle make it better for loader use, it's larger size doesn't work as well in the poultry barns and it takes up a little more room doing close quarters work, other wise it's a good all around use tractor.
The new larger disc mower and baler I bought a few years ago have it near it's limits in being able to operate them and handle them safely.
I acquired my late brothers 5000 a few years ago and find myself using it more and more each year, it larger physical size makes it the better tractor for the new mower and baler, this also makes it a better loader tractor, it also handles my 10' brush hog better.
It's to big to properly use in the poultry barns so I don't even pull it into the buildings, I also consider it to big for close quarters work, box blading the drive ways, mowing around bushes and under trees.
Due to hay dust allergies I now have a 6610 cab tractor with AC for baling, also does a good job pulling the 15" bat wing mower clipping pastures.

As you see I have different sizes for different jobs now but my 4000 use to do all of the work so I'm kinda parcel to to it.
Large row crop operators would consider my size tractors as useless toys.
Those maintaining their drive way and small acreage may consider anything larger than the 4000SU as to big.


Thanks for all the Info. Sorry I am full of questions! Since you asked about me and my intentions... here it goes..

Currently I only have a small plot of land (11 acres) that I plan on brush hogging, discing, Tilling and planting. Initially I am going to be using the tractor for whitetail deer habitat establishment on my 11 acres as well as possibly snow removal (back blade) and some hired brush hogging for my neighbors. Neighbors all have 20+ acre horse farms and hire all their brush hogging out. Figured if I could make some money every 6 months or so... why not...

Long term, As my two young sons get older I am hoping the tractor can be a project for us. A slow restoration so that they can learn about all things mechanical. Currently, they are 2.5 years and 3.5 month old!

In the future I also plan on possibly buying more hunting property/acreage as funds become available and the kids get older. I would like a tractor that I won't outgrow as long as I have realistic expectations of it. Right now I have no use for a loader, but that doesn't mean I wont need one in the future.

I am 99% sure I could get away with something like a 2000/3000, MF 135 etc, but just find those models really small. I guess I am operating on the pole barn theory. Figure out what size I need, and get one or two sizes bigger.

Thanks!
 
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Sean in PA
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:10 am    Post subject: Re: 1970s Fords Reply to specific post Reply with quote

A '79 4600SU model number would start with DS2, so it is most likely DS214C, which would make it a 4600SU with a diesel engine, independent 540 rpm PTO and an 8 speed transmission.
 
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Ultradog MN
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:47 pm    Post subject: Re: 1970s Fords Reply to specific post Reply with quote

An SU would be a great machine. Powerful,
nimble, independent pto, excellent brakes.
Fwiw, I have three properties up in
central MN. Total acreage is only 35.
I bush hog, finish mow, plow and disc deer
plots and the gardens for a couple of
cousins, plus the usual backblading
driveways, dragging dead trees, and
general goofing around with my 3000.
It really is all the tractor I need.
I have owned several standard 4000s,
parted them out, fixed them up and sold
them, etc.
I really like the 4000s but every time if
I have to make a choice I always sell the
4000s and stick to my 3000. It's just so
darned handy. The 4000/4600s are just a
little too big. An SU would be about the
perfect tractor. Plenty of grunt and small
stature. I would Not want a loader on my
3000. I have had loader tractors too. But
a loader makes a clumsy behemoth out of
one. Some day I will own a dedicated
loader tractor. It might only get used 25
hours a year tho.
I say that SU would be a great all round
tractor for your property. And down the
road if you want bigger you can sell it
and move up to something larger.
 
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65plymouth
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:45 pm    Post subject: Re: 1970s Fords Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CVPost-Ultradog MN wrote:
(quoted from post at 15:47:51 01/02/1Cool An SU would be a great machine. Powerful,
nimble, independent pto, excellent brakes.
Fwiw, I have three properties up in
central MN. Total acreage is only 35.
I bush hog, finish mow, plow and disc deer
plots and the gardens for a couple of
cousins, plus the usual backblading
driveways, dragging dead trees, and
general goofing around with my 3000.
It really is all the tractor I need.
I have owned several standard 4000s,
parted them out, fixed them up and sold
them, etc.
I really like the 4000s but every time if
I have to make a choice I always sell the
4000s and stick to my 3000. It's just so
darned handy. The 4000/4600s are just a
little too big. An SU would be about the
perfect tractor. Plenty of grunt and small
stature. I would Not want a loader on my
3000. I have had loader tractors too. But
a loader makes a clumsy behemoth out of
one. Some day I will own a dedicated
loader tractor. It might only get used 25
hours a year tho.
I say that SU would be a great all round
tractor for your property. And down the
road if you want bigger you can sell it
and move up to something larger.


Thanks Ultradog. So you saw what few pics I have of the one I am looking at currently. What do you think would be a fair price for that tractor given average tires, and a strong good working engine with no blow by, good clutch, Pto, and 3 point? Obviously it needs a shift lever knob, a rear light, Some decals and paint work. Might need front tires and possibly rears. Current owner doesn't know much about the tractor at all as it came with the property he bought.

On the other hand, as posted in the case forum, I have my eye on a case 990 that is in decent shape. Owner said is has been used little and has been repainted. 4 cylinder 55 hp diesel with 12 speed gearbox. Guy will let that one go for 4k.

I am on the fence about what to do. I could just wait for spring.. Not sure if tractors tend to sell for higher prices in spring or not.
 
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Destroked 450
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:59 pm    Post subject: Re: 1970s Fords Reply to specific post Reply with quote


I completely agree with Ultradog, a SU model would be a great tractor for your needs.
It will handle a 6 ft brush hog with ease, 7 footer will get the front end light, but has enough hp to operate a 8 ft pull type cutter.
I have a 10 ft pull type I've pulled with my 4000 but have never hooked it to the SU, I don't feel the SU has enough weight to properly handle that size mower.
You'll like the independent pto but be aware these earlier tractors didn't have a pto safety switch so you can start the engine and have the pto suddenly start turning if it was left engaged or the lever was flipped on accidentally (children playing).
Even if I didn't need the hp I'd hate to give up the superior wet disc brakes for a 3000-3600"s drum brake system, plus the extra weight of the larger planetary axle and wet brakes gives the tractor a more stable feel (traded a 3000 for the SU).
I'm 6'1" and know the feeling of be cramped on some tractors, although my 4000 and 4000SU are the same size in the operator area I've adjusted the seats so that they set completely different.

On the 4000 I have the seat slid back and raised up to a comfortable position for me.
My 5'3" wife does most of the hay tedding and raking while I mow and bale, I have the SU's seat positioned forward and down for her. I need it to be comfortable for her to operate so I deal with it when I use it, other wise I'd reposition the seat.
So don't let the setting position sway your decision on these models.

For transporting to different locations a SU's thread width can be adjusted to fit between the fenders of a standard 8 ft width 6000 lb car hauler style trailer that can be pulled behind a 1/2 ton pickup (F-150, 1500). I hauled a 4000 on a small trailer behind a 1/2 ton pickup once. Once was enough for me. My 4000 will not fit between the fenders of a 8 ft car hauler style trailer, trailer needs to be 102" wide pulled by a 3/4 ton pickup (F-250, 2500).

With the other acreage and custom work you talking about, being able to transport a particular size tractor is something to consider.

That roll bar is a nice safety feature and a canopy can be added easily.
There does appear to be some type of home made lift arm stabilizer system with those chains around the lift arms and stay chains disconnected, but nothing that would cost much to rectify.

I looked in the Case section at the 990 you mentioned, it's a good looking tractor.
Keep in mind thats it's comparable in size and weight to a regular 4000-4600 (bigger truck & trailer to transport)
I've ran my friends 990, but him and his dad where around 5'8' with the seat set for them, I don't know how much adjustability there is in the 990's seating position, but from my experience driving their's if you felt cramped on a 2000, you'll be claustrophobic on a 990. 990 also has less hydraulic capacity than a 4600.
Just my experience but then I am a little biased toward Fords.
 
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65plymouth
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:08 am    Post subject: Re: 1970s Fords Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Thanks guys... I know I am all over the Map. Now I have found a few decent 3600 models to choose from. Taking the advice above and wondering if I really need a standard 4600 or even a 4600SU.

Is there a huge disadvantage to the drum brakes of the 3600 compared to the wet of the 4600. What about the rear end planetary gears? 40hp (pto diesel) ok for a 6 foot brush hog, blade, 2 bottom plow etc. Any other major differences between the 3600 and the 4600? As i said, I don't plan on ever adding a loader and if I do, i will trade up. The 3600's I am considering have outlets in the rear, one has spin out wheels, one has vertical and the other has horizontal exhaust and one only has 1600 hrs.

Thoughts... opinions... suggestions..

Thanks!
 
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fordman81
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:50 am    Post subject: Re: 1970s Fords Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Have you looked on craigslist or tractor house at 990 David Browns prices?

What are they asking for the Ford?
 
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:03 am    Post subject: Re: 1970s Fords Reply to specific post Reply with quote

fordman81 wrote:
(quoted from post at 10:50:54 01/03/1Cool Have you looked on craigslist or tractor house at 990 David Browns prices?

What are they asking for the Ford?


There are very few David Brown 990s for sale that I have been able to find. I think I found one with a loader for 7k other than the one mentioned earlier in this thread and in a thread on the case board. Not a lot out there for sale currently.

The 4600SU pictured earlier in this thread with 3400 hours and a bunch of unknowns will be sold for 4k after negotiations between myself and the owner. This is the price we agreed on IF i decide to by and the tractor is as described. Problem is, the owner knows nothing about the tractor. Only that it runs and he owns it. He did mention that the breaks make a sound like a car needing new pads. Not sure what this means, but a squeal cant be great coming from the rear end of a tractor.

The 3600 with 1600hrs mentioned in my earlier post I am still getting info on. I am waiting for pics. Owner has several 3600's and restores them and sells them for profit. The one being discussed is mechanically sound (and repaired by him), rear outlets, deluxe fenders and horizontal exhaust. Everything works like a new tractor. Paint is original tins have no damage He wants $6500.00
 
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BobReeves
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:05 am    Post subject: Re: 1970s Fords Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I have a little less than 10 acres but I do allot with it. Food plot and sunflowers, plowing, disking, dragging, tilling and planting with a John Deere 2 row corn planter. Maintain gravel drive and of course mowing with a 7 foot JD flail mower. I have a 3000 with a loader I use for moving dirt and gravel which usually has a box blade or landscape rake on the rear. Also have a 3600 which does most of the mowing and other tasks.

Both are 3 cylinder diesel easy to work on, simple tractors with readily available parts and plenty of power for what I need. In my case a 4000 would be overkill and seems like more difficult to work on with normal shop tools.
 
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Destroked 450
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:23 am    Post subject: Re: 1970s Fords Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Your user name 65plymouth must have some reasoning.
If you've driven a car or pickup with drum brakes and same type with disc brakes You probably know the difference in how they stop.
Same thing applies to the brakes on these Fords. Drum brakes will stop you and do a decent job, disc brakes are just better and require less effort. Thinking of those boys, when they get big enough to operate a tractor it would be easier for them to stop one with disc brakes.

Where your located and the type of ground you'll be working on would also be a determining factor.
For flat to low rolling ground ether type brake would be fine.
Some flat but mostly hilly ground like I have here in Ky I don't have a problem using a tractor with drum brakes, but I wouldn't want my wife to drive it.

We had a 3000 that she drove some in the hay fields, traded it for the 4000SU and now she drives that tractor.
The very first thing she commented on was how much better the brakes where on the SU.

The planetary gears on these tractors are nearly indestructible, unless they've been abused or run without oil they don't give problems.

To expand your search here's some comparisons
Each number change is for next newer model
3000 - 3600 - 3610 are all the same basic tractor
3910 same hp as 3610 but has 4000 series planetary axle and wet disc brakes.
4000 - 4600 - 4610 next size bigger, more hp, HD straight front axle, planetary drive rear axle with wet disc brakes, bigger tires and wheels
4000SU - 4600SU - 4610SU lower profile model using 3000 series front axle and steering with smaller tires

If you have the funding for a newer model I think you'd really like a 3930, about the same hp as the other 3000 series but has all of the features of a 4000 series. planetary axles, wet disc brakes, straight from axle but with shorter spindle drops and smaller tires giving it the lower profile, these models also have the much improved hydrostatic steering

Are you confused yet.
 
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65plymouth
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:31 pm    Post subject: Re: 1970s Fords Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Destroked 450 wrote:
(quoted from post at 12:23:39 01/03/1Cool
Your user name 65plymouth must have some reasoning.
If you've driven a car or pickup with drum brakes and same type with disc brakes You probably know the difference in how they stop.
Same thing applies to the brakes on these Fords. Drum brakes will stop you and do a decent job, disc brakes are just better and require less effort. Thinking of those boys, when they get big enough to operate a tractor it would be easier for them to stop one with disc brakes.

Where your located and the type of ground you'll be working on would also be a determining factor.
For flat to low rolling ground ether type brake would be fine.
Some flat but mostly hilly ground like I have here in Ky I don't have a problem using a tractor with drum brakes, but I wouldn't want my wife to drive it.

We had a 3000 that she drove some in the hay fields, traded it for the 4000SU and now she drives that tractor.
The very first thing she commented on was how much better the brakes where on the SU.

The planetary gears on these tractors are nearly indestructible, unless they've been abused or run without oil they don't give problems.

To expand your search here's some comparisons
Each number change is for next newer model
3000 - 3600 - 3610 are all the same basic tractor
3910 same hp as 3610 but has 4000 series planetary axle and wet disc brakes.
4000 - 4600 - 4610 next size bigger, more hp, HD straight front axle, planetary drive rear axle with wet disc brakes, bigger tires and wheels
4000SU - 4600SU - 4610SU lower profile model using 3000 series front axle and steering with smaller tires

If you have the funding for a newer model I think you'd really like a 3930, about the same hp as the other 3000 series but has all of the features of a 4000 series. planetary axles, wet disc brakes, straight from axle but with shorter spindle drops and smaller tires giving it the lower profile, these models also have the much improved hydrostatic steering

Are you confused yet.


Very Confused... LOL.. Thank you though. You, as well as several others, have been very helpful.

Yes. I used to have a 65 Plymouth Valiant and my father and I built a 66 Plymouth Valiant from the ground up back in 2004/2005. Hot street car. We swapped the drums for discs! lol. Also crewed on for a 1964 Plymouth Savoy drag car running Nostalgia super stock for a year or two.

Anyway... For the most part all the terrain in this area is flat or made up of gradual rolling hills. No steep inclines. I am sure I would be fine with drum brakes on a tractor...

As for my budget, I think my wife would kill me if I spend anything more than $6500.00. This is a "starter" tractor and until it is justified (as being useful) I wont have the green light to spend much more money. Happy wife, Happy life principle. Plus, as I mentioned previously, most of it's use will come creating more hunting habitat FOR ME!! lol. She has no interest in the tractor only in the money I spend to buy it and maintain it.

Is there any truth to quality control taking a dive on the 1980's through min 90's tractors? Regardless of manufacturing. I know in the early 80's we started becoming a throw away society. I have also read that many of the major tractor manufacturers started outsourcing around this time and quality control started on a downward slope. This is specifically why I haven't looked at any of the 80's models. Budget as well. Newer usually means more $$$.
 
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:48 pm    Post subject: Re: 1970s Fords Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Can't say much about other brands, I've always had Fords.
But I feel my 89 6610 is as well built as my 69 4000 and although the sheet medal is changed, the basic tractor is still the same as when first produced in 65.
There where design changes through the years such as an intake manifold from a 80's model won't work on my 69 4000 (port design change) but that entire 80's model engine will bolt to my 69 transmission or I could bolt the 80's model head onto the 70's model engine I'm presently running on my 69 tractor and then use the 80's model intake.

Ford stayed true to the course on the basic tractor design from the 60's through to the 90's.

As long as one stays with the ever dependable 8x2 transmission any of the 3 cylinder models are good tractors.
Some later models could be had with 8x4 synchro shift and later 8x8 shuttle shift transmissions, good transmissions but hard to work on, higher repair cost and harder to find parts for.
 
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