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1955 Major water getting into engine oil

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Gord1955
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:03 pm    Post subject: 1955 Major water getting into engine oil Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Must have just happened today, oil level got real high but was not white? Head gasket or possibly eaten out sleeve area???? Didn't need this to happen right about now, funny thing it starts and runs great.
 
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jdv
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:51 am    Post subject: Re: 1955 Major water getting into engine oil Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Is it fuel? Possibly the diaphram in the lift pump?
After it sits overnite unscrew the oil drain plug a little
to see if antifreeze drips out, can also smell the oil
on the dipstick to see if it?s diesel or gas if it?s a gas
engine.
 
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Gord1955
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:55 am    Post subject: Re: 1955 Major water getting into engine oil Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CVPost-jdv wrote:
(quoted from post at 09:51:09 01/31/1Cool Is it fuel? Possibly the diaphram in the lift pump?
After it sits overnite unscrew the oil drain plug a little
to see if antifreeze drips out, can also smell the oil
on the dipstick to see if it?s diesel or gas if it?s a gas
engine.
Definitely water, rad was really down and when I drained the engine a lot of water came out with the oil....just talking to our local parts dealer and he claims the 55 does not have liners, just a straight bore, hopefully he's right and might be able to get away with just a head gasket, find out later today when I take the head off if he is right.
 
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Robert Major
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:42 pm    Post subject: Re: 1955 Major water getting into engine oil Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Hi your dealer doesn't know what he's talking about, your motor has wet sleeves every major from the 1952 first "new" style gas and diesel 220 motor
like yours including the Ford 5000 diesel as it was badged in North America for 2 years does . The next generation 6X &Y world wide 1000 series are bored blocks, the gas E27N before your style major was to, the perkins conversion ones had a dry sleeve also.

Chances are your liner seal ring or rings have let go or the block groove is corroded out.
That is very common on those engines, Ive seen quite a few over the years. The odd one has dropped a sleeve or cracked one to, but never seen one go porouse like the later 0000 series blocks do. yes they will blow head gaskets but usually there are other symptoms like it blows water, runs hot, don't run right, or won't start with water hydro locking a cylinder, or burns water when it starts.

If it was mine I'd pull the pan put more water in, and see if you can see where it's leaking out. once the heads off and you maybe find it wasn't that unless you can see something leaking under the rocker cover first, you have a job to get water in and pressure the system if you need to find the leak in the block. If it's one ring leaking you should really pull all the sleeves as the others are probably bad to, then hope you don't find its the blocks corroded real bad. That job can become the end of the tractor or a money pit real quick sadly.
Regards Robert
 
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derwen1959
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:20 pm    Post subject: Re: 1955 Major water getting into engine oil Reply to specific post Reply with quote

be careful when ordering new liners as I believe there are different sizes depending on year of manufacture
 
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Gord1955
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:50 am    Post subject: Re: 1955 Major water getting into engine oil Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CVPost-derwen1959 wrote:
(quoted from post at 19:20:32 01/31/1Cool be careful when ordering new liners as I believe there are different sizes depending on year of manufacture

Head is off and all the liners look good and sealed tight, head gasket looked a little iffy, water was getting into one cylinder # 3 but everything looks good so far, will do another inspection today - there is a little oil passage between 2&3 on right hand side- slight recess, is there something supposed to go in it? there was nothing? and is there anyway to thoroughly check liners like a pressure test to really make sure that the head gasket was at fault? Thanks everyone for your help on this, and your right, the dealer is out to lunch, pretty obvious if you can buy liners it has liners.
 
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Gord1955
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:59 am    Post subject: Re: 1955 Major water getting into engine oil Reply to specific post Reply with quote


For what it's worth I will be pullin the pan, going to putting a new timing cover gasket in anyway so might as well pull the pan while I'm at it- probably years of sludge needed to be cleaned out anyway.
 
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Robert Major
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:12 am    Post subject: Re: 1955 Major water getting into engine oil Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Hi yes that recess is supposed to have a rubber sealing ring in there, sometimes they are missing from a previous repair or fall out and you didn't
notice when you took it apart. Hopefully a new one comes with the gasket kit you will buy to get the other gaskets you are changing, the front crank
seal is another place they leak the seal goes hard and cuts a groove in the boss on the front pulley. Hopefully the rear seals not leaking to it's a
2 piece rope seal and the motor has to come out to change the top part.

You won't tell anything much from looking at the tops of the liners as to being sealed water tight. thats why I said oil pan first really to test
it, as now you really should put it back together to pressure test the O rings properly, or just do the head and fill it up with coolant and hope
you fixed it. either way now you could be chasing your tail fixing it.

sometimes filling the coolant jacket might be enough to see it, or you may see rust marks in the block with the pan off on the outside of the sleeve
where it pokes through. are you sure that water didn't get in there when you pulled the head it does happen sometimes, as it's odd you got a big
amount of water in the pan and maybe didn't notice other symptoms first.

pulling that pans a fun job, as it's real heavy cast iron so be careful and find the "hidden bolts" you might easily not see up behind the frame
rails at the back and up in the front I think there is one or 2 down a deep hole you might miss, you might have to slack the other bell housing
bolts to drop the pan to. it's been a while since I did one, and i can't remember if it pinches tight between the bell housing and the front plate.
the wish bone has to come off to or remove the axle if the bolts dont come out. I've had them where the bolts and pivot pin is seized and the
whole front casting had to come off with the axle.

I have an expensive pressure test kit here as I do quite a few diagnostic tests on tractors with the same type of problems. you can do it with a few
psi from a compressor (like 15 or less so you don't stuff the rad first ) in through the overflow pipe outlet with the rad cap on. most of the majors I see don't have a pressure
cap, if yours does the oil filler cap will fit on instead to seal the rad filler while you are doing it.

Sadly these old majors are like other old tractors now one problem leads to a whole world of headaches, Lots of them are running with worn out
cranks, and little oil pressure. Hopefully yours isn't one and you find the cranks worn and needs new bearings if you have to pull any caps. They
are a tractor thats not worth fixing unless it has huge sentimental value, or you want to spend money you will never get back selling it.

Regards Robert
 
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Gord1955
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 2:31 pm    Post subject: Re: 1955 Major water getting into engine oil Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CVPost-robert major wrote:
(quoted from post at 12:12:49 02/01/1Cool Hi yes that recess is supposed to have a rubber sealing ring in there, sometimes they are missing from a previous repair or fall out and you didn't
notice when you took it apart. Hopefully a new one comes with the gasket kit you will buy to get the other gaskets you are changing, the front crank
seal is another place they leak the seal goes hard and cuts a groove in the boss on the front pulley. Hopefully the rear seals not leaking to it's a
2 piece rope seal and the motor has to come out to change the top part.

You won't tell anything much from looking at the tops of the liners as to being sealed water tight. thats why I said oil pan first really to test
it, as now you really should put it back together to pressure test the O rings properly, or just do the head and fill it up with coolant and hope
you fixed it. either way now you could be chasing your tail fixing it.

sometimes filling the coolant jacket might be enough to see it, or you may see rust marks in the block with the pan off on the outside of the sleeve
where it pokes through. are you sure that water didn't get in there when you pulled the head it does happen sometimes, as it's odd you got a big
amount of water in the pan and maybe didn't notice other symptoms first.

pulling that pans a fun job, as it's real heavy cast iron so be careful and find the "hidden bolts" you might easily not see up behind the frame
rails at the back and up in the front I think there is one or 2 down a deep hole you might miss, you might have to slack the other bell housing
bolts to drop the pan to. it's been a while since I did one, and i can't remember if it pinches tight between the bell housing and the front plate.
the wish bone has to come off to or remove the axle if the bolts dont come out. I've had them where the bolts and pivot pin is seized and the
whole front casting had to come off with the axle.

I have an expensive pressure test kit here as I do quite a few diagnostic tests on tractors with the same type of problems. you can do it with a few
psi from a compressor (like 15 or less so you don't stuff the rad first ) in through the overflow pipe outlet with the rad cap on. most of the majors I see don't have a pressure
cap, if yours does the oil filler cap will fit on instead to seal the rad filler while you are doing it.

Sadly these old majors are like other old tractors now one problem leads to a whole world of headaches, Lots of them are running with worn out
cranks, and little oil pressure. Hopefully yours isn't one and you find the cranks worn and needs new bearings if you have to pull any caps. They
are a tractor thats not worth fixing unless it has huge sentimental value, or you want to spend money you will never get back selling it.

Regards Robert

yup, filled it with some coolant and yes it is leaking ----as a last attempt to see weather it is worth fixing this engine or not will pull the pan and remove #3 piston and pull a liner to see how bad it is, have another engine with one bad journal but might be the lesser of 2 evils.
 
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Gord1955
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:45 pm    Post subject: Re: 1955 Major water getting into engine oil Reply to specific post Reply with quote

pan off and water passing liner in #4, pulled the piston and now the liner....looking at the piston don't have a lot of hope for this one- scored pretty bad even though the cylinder isn't, find out what shape the block is in shortly when I pull the liner, - don't plan on selling this one so if we have to sink a little money into it if it is worth it I will if not might have a line on another engine.
 
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Robert Major
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:02 am    Post subject: Re: 1955 Major water getting into engine oil Reply to specific post Reply with quote

hi if the blocks ok rebuild what you got if you aren't planning on getting "divorced" from the old
girl anytime soon. If another motors sat around you could find you get issues with the sealing
rings again right away, or sometime further down the line. Unless you know somebody rebuilt the
motor recently and did it properly.

I Got blue blood in my system as my family history is farming with the Dagenham Fordsons back in
the Uk I remember the last one leaving the farm in about 1979 or so,and our family history is
originally Essex to on my Dads side. I got a pile of Fordson Majors here in my collection in
Canada. I'd bankrupt my self if I restored all of them to like new L.O.L. I got a last year 5000
diesel here we still use to cut grass with. I rebuilt the motor in it about 10 years ago
though.Dad drives it and thinks about the good old days farming with them !.

Regards Robert
 
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Gord1955
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:08 pm    Post subject: Re: 1955 Major water getting into engine oil Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CVPost-robert major wrote:
(quoted from post at 01:02:43 02/02/1Cool hi if the blocks ok rebuild what you got if you aren't planning on getting "divorced" from the old
girl anytime soon. If another motors sat around you could find you get issues with the sealing
rings again right away, or sometime further down the line. Unless you know somebody rebuilt the
motor recently and did it properly.

I Got blue blood in my system as my family history is farming with the Dagenham Fordsons back in
the Uk I remember the last one leaving the farm in about 1979 or so,and our family history is
originally Essex to on my Dads side. I got a pile of Fordson Majors here in my collection in
Canada. I'd bankrupt my self if I restored all of them to like new L.O.L. I got a last year 5000
diesel here we still use to cut grass with. I rebuilt the motor in it about 10 years ago
though.Dad drives it and thinks about the good old days farming with them !.
Just pulled the other one down, looks like new inside, even the head is clean and shiny like someone just did a number on it and the rest is extremely clean inside....why it was replaced is the guy spun a rod bearing shell...won't get into detail but besides the crank journal no other damage i can find, just pulled that piston and it is like new and the liners look like they were done as well, the only problem I see is the one I just pulled apart has a bigger wrist pin but other then that they look identical, will know more as I get further into it.

Regards Robert

 
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Gord1955
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:41 am    Post subject: Re: 1955 Major water getting into engine oil Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Got it all apart and pulled 2 liners, rust hole in one of them and the second one not too far behind, O ring area looks good - unfortunately super major liners will not fit, too bad the other engine I have, the super major looks like new inside but one journal is no good, not sure what direction to go at this point, liners and pistons for the major or replace the crank in the newer engine which overall is in much better shape, might have a line on another super major engine and will know in a few days, like to order parts from this site but they say they only ship US only... I'm in western Canada.
 
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JLMac
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:23 pm    Post subject: Re: 1955 Major water getting into engine oil Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I've had good luck ordering parts from Agriline, reasonable shipping costs.

https://www.agrilineproducts.com/parts.html?_=Ford_and_Fordson__Fordson__Super_Major
 
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Gord1955
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:18 pm    Post subject: Re: 1955 Major water getting into engine oil Reply to specific post Reply with quote

JLMac wrote:
(quoted from post at 15:23:54 02/04/1Cool I've had good luck ordering parts from Agriline, reasonable shipping costs.

https://www.agrilineproducts.com/parts.html?_=Ford_and_Fordson__Fordson__Super_Major

Will check them out , thanks
 
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